Episode 12: Ben Higgins: Lonely? You're Not Alone
Transcript
Patsy: Hi, I’m Patsy Clairmont, and I’m a Boomer.
Andrew: I’m Andrew Greer, and I’m a Millennial.
Patsy: And you are listening to Bridges.
Andrew: Spiritual Connections Through Generational Conversations.
Patsy: Well, I think it’s exciting that we get to have Ben Higgins on the program, and I know there’s a lot of gals out there that think it’s pretty exciting too because he was on The Bachelor. And he has written a book called Alone in Plain Sight: Searching for Connection.
Andrew: Ben is a great guy, and you know, some of our audience, including myself — I kind of had some preconceived ideas about what does a reality TV star have to speak into some more significant places of my mental and emotional health. But in fact, Ben has some wonderful insight and some incredibly experiences with feeling lonely and how he has begun to pave a path into connecting with others. Very excited to have Ben here with us today on Bridges, and we think you will be too.
Patsy: I know of a painter that you’ve heard — Thomas Kinkade. He was one of the painter of lights throughout our history, and he had this vision that one day he would take his idyllic paintings and he would put Disney characters in them. That made no sense to me, but somebody came along and did it with Mickey and Minnie, and they put them on the Sweetheart Bridge. And that Sweetheart Bridge leads me right to our guest today.
Andrew: That’s right. It’s an adorable name. I can’t stand enough of the Sweetheart Bridge, but we do have our guest here today, Ben Higgins, who we’re going to be talking a lot about how to connect and connection. The title of your new book, Ben, is Alone in Plain Sight. The subtitle, which I love: Searching for Connection When You’re Seen But Not Known. Welcome to Bridges, Ben.
Ben: This is a pleasure. This is great.
Andrew: Listen, the title’s where I want to start because it’s provocative in its own way. It’s an excellent title, especially on the topic of connection, but a lot of people who know you and know your history and how really you built your platform through the TV shows that you’ve been would think, Now, wait a second. This guy’s going to talk to me about feeling alone? But in fact, the inspiration of your book here, the journey, is about searching for connection.
Ben: Yeah, it is. Exactly. It’s a little bit ironic maybe, right? So I built my platform from being on The Bachelor. Before that, it’s not like I had a lot of voices in my head really caring about what I did. And I was on the show and came off the show, and you have millions of people following you.
Andrew: Pretty overnight.
Ben: Overnight. Within seconds.
Patsy: That’s kind of startling.
Ben: Shocking, yeah. Shocking would be the best way. And so a year after kind of that had already settled and the platform had already been built, I realized that I felt more lonely than ever. And there was no really good way to explain myself, so I started journaling and a lot of the journaling came down to what is in the book now. But the title really is how I was feeling at the time and how when I spoke to others they were feeling. They felt alone. They felt misunderstood. But yet, we are more connected through social media, we’re more connected through our ease of transportations than ever, but yet more and more people that I talked to said they feel alone, misunderstood, unseen, and unknown. And that’s really why the title’s the way it is.
Patsy: Well, it’s interesting because I help people to direct them into writing their own story, and to do that, I start with journaling. So it’s interesting that that is what led you into this book was writing your story. Don’t you think there’s a therapy in telling your story through your fingertips?
Ben: I think everybody should write their memoir. I a hundred percent do.
A year ago I went on a public speaking tour. It was funny because as I was prepping for this tour, I was like, What in the world am I going to speak about? And this has already started to be formulated. The book had already been kind of written and it was getting edited at the time, and I was like, Well, I have this to share. But I was like, Why would anybody want to listen to me?
And it’s funny, and I say this in a way that I laugh about now because I’m in a healthier place. I just wrote my memoir, and people I hope want to read it because I was on a reality television show, but the story has been consistent since I was a child. There’s only a few chapters in this that are about this last four and a half years of life for me. But because I have a show that I was a part of, a crazy reality show, now people want to hear what I have to say.
But here’s the thing I want to caveat it with: I think everybody needs to write their memoir because I think a lot of us can learn from each other, and I think if we started to more openly share our stories, we would start being more understood, or at least there would be a vulnerability in that, which is a lot of what the book is about.
“Everybody should write their memoir.”
Andrew: And more connectedness. Instant connection when we share our stories with one another because we begin to identify parts of your story. The details may be very different, but the feelings are often very much the same, and so sharing our story presents us a platform to actually connect.
It’s interesting you’re talking about how after now suddenly you are known the world over because of the success of the TV show, and overnight you have people following you on socials wondering what’s going on in your life, et cetera, and seemingly, you’re more connected than ever, which I think we could relate to culture in general. We’re seeing in statistics that while we live in a very “connected” culture because of technology, the statistics are finding that we’re more alone, more disconnected, than ever. Why do you think that is?
Ben: Well, I think there’s a few factors going into it. One is we always see people’s best sides. It’s what we highlight, it’s what we show, and so after kind of the drip effect of always seeing that over and over again, you’re going to start believing that everybody else in the world is just doing the coolest things, is never suffering, never hurting. And if they are hurting, it happens like maybe once every six months. And so you just start to believe internally that everybody else out there has it together and you’re the only one that’s broken. I think that’s one factor.
I think another one is the lack of vulnerability. I think that we live in snippets. We live right now with 40 characters. We get bits and pieces of everybody’s life. What that’s not able to include is the vulnerability or the time it takes to become vulnerable. You have to build really deep relationships to understand somebody and actually want to invest hours, years, into their life.
And I think the third factor is a lack of grace now, a lack of forgiveness. I think we’re more misunderstood than ever, we feel more misunderstood than ever, because we’re scared to death that nobody is gonna forgive us if we mess up or if we admit to messing up or if we don’t know it all.
And I would highlight those three things, especially talking to people throughout the book, that really do kind of put a pressure on us all to be perfect, and when we’re not perfect, we shy away from it. We hide. And the longer we hide, the more lonely we get. The more lonely we get, the more isolated we get, and I think the more isolated we get, the harder it is to get back to being connected again.
Patsy: I find I’m my worst company after a while, that I just get tired of me. I need someone to hear me so I can think clearer. Sometimes as I speak the words out loud, I’m hearing more honestly what I’ve been sitting and muddling through. When I’m connected to healthy people, they help to keep me anchored. They’ll say, “That’s a crazy thought you’re having there. You need to get rid of that one and find something that’s gonna be healthier for your internal well-being.”
So I think it helps the connectivity in getting honest answers and helping us grow in a more whole fashion when we have a circle of good people around us. Don’t you think so?
Ben: I agree. Yeah, one of the things I found out in the book is a lot of people struggle with feeling other people’s successes. Even though they’re great people and they really want to celebrate their friendship, celebrate their family, you can do that and they want to do that, they want people to succeed, but they don’t feel it themselves internally.
I guess I’m speaking for myself too. It’s not very often that I have just an elated joy inside of me when somebody else comes to me and says, “Hey, I just got a promotion.” I’m happy for them. I want to celebrate them, I want them to feel great and how important they are, but it oftentimes misses my heart.
The one thing that friendships really I think I’ve found can do is when we are experiencing pains and struggles, that connects us because we’re able to be empathetic. We’re able to humble ourselves in the moment. We’re able to sit with that person and sit through it. There’s something about pain and struggle that we can all feel, even if it’s not yours, right? Why do movies bring you to tears? Now oftentimes it can maybe bring you to joy and laughter, but that sadness or maybe just the depth of the story is what we feel and what lasts and what affects us most about story.
And so I agree with you where when we’re around people, healthy people, or even unhealthy people, there is an accountability to that that allows us all to stay on the same track because when I’m alone, I’m going to start believing voices in my head. But when we’re around people that love us, they’re going to help guide and correct us.
I mean, I personally believe that’s kind of what God intended in relationship. I also feel like it’s what we desire as humans, and I think the best stories are told when we’re together and not alone.
“The best stories are told when we’re together and not alone.”
Andrew: That’s for sure, yeah. I think one of the greatest common denominators of humanity is pain. It’s one of the easiest places to relate and one of the most intimate and truly transparent places to relate, but let’s talk about that because I think also that wherever the pain is in my life, wherever I live out of certain pain in my life, I can be attracted, very attracted, to someone else who lives out of similar pains. And if we’re not both on a track to our own individual health, that can be a very toxic relationship. So how do you kind of feel that or boundary your relationships, you know what I mean? When someone is living out of their pain, that’s going to require something different for me than if we’re sharing our stories about our pain and promoting ourselves into a new place of health.
Ben: Yeah. Well, one of the chapters in the book talks about being a victim versus victor, and I think in order to have that differential, you have to be in a state of, I don’t want to be a victim to everything forever. I know that I’m hurting and I know that I’m feeling deep emotions, that I’m struggling in ways I never thought I could, but I don’t want to live in this forever.
You have to have that mindset. And so this book is for people, I think, and I even mention in there, that want to have a mindset of, I want to heal. I want to get better. I want to connect with others. If you don’t, I don’t think this book is going to work for you, right? If you want to live in shared pain and only shared pain forever, if that’s your desire, then I don’t think this book is for you.
But if you’re in pain, I think this book is for you because I hope, just like maybe a friend would that is experiencing the same pain, you would realize you’re not alone. And that’s really why this book exists, is to reach out to anybody that wants to read it and listen and say, hey, these are relatable stories. This isn’t going to be incredibly dramatic. There’s not going to be things in here probably that rock your world in every chapter. What it’s going to do is it’s hopefully relating to you to say, “If you’re hurting, I know there’s somebody else hurting as well, and because of that, the one the truth that you always have to tell yourself is that you’re never alone.”
So yes, I think pain and pain with the intent of staying in pain is probably not healthy, but I think pain and pain with the intent of can we help each other heal is one of the most beautiful things relationships can give.
Patsy: You’re listening to the voice of Ben Higgins, who is the author of Alone in Plain Sight. And I’m Patsy Clairmont, and I’m with my co-host, the brilliant Andrew Greer, and we’ll be back in a moment.
Bridges Sponsorship Message
Patsy: “Where would I be if I did not believe I would experience the Lord’s favor in the land of the living? Rely on the Lord! Be strong and confident! Rely on the Lord!” Those are the last two verses of Psalm 27 from the Abide Bible. It is a new Bible that has been in my home now for several months, so I’ve had time to work with it and it to work inside of me. It offers beautiful, old art that is associated with verses, so it helps it to become a bigger picture in our mind and our retention is improved. It has places for us to journal on the side as we read. It also has instructions on how to pray this Scripture, how to meditate on it, how to contemplate it so we can sit and soak in God’s Word and allow it to dwell richly within us.
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Bridges Sponsorship Message
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Andrew: Many people will know you from your platform as one of the participants, stars, whatever you want to call it, reality TV stars on The Bachelor, but I want to be real clear and Alone in Plain Sight, your new book, is not just some kind of bachelor reality TV tell-all.
Ben: No, no, not at all.
Andrew: It could’ve been.
Ben: Could’ve been. And if I wanted to sell a lot of copies, it probably would’ve been. I think throughout the last four and a half years, I’ve been so surprised with the platform that was given to me that if I get one shot at trying to do something that matters, I don’t want to use it to sell more copies. I really want to use it for something that can maybe benefit others, benefit myself.
And as we talked about earlier, this really came from me journaling. This wasn’t a part of the long-term plan to finally write a book. It came from a place of my own deep pains and my own deep hurts and my own feelings of loneliness and writing those down on paper and then connecting with other people who felt the same way.
The Bachelor’s a huge part of my story, right? This is a good joke that I always tell, but it’s true. I’m not sitting here in this room if I didn’t go on the show. But it isn’t the only part of my story, and it’s probably the one biggest part of my story and my life that other people really can’t relate with. There’s only 24 of us at this point that have been the Bachelor. There’s not a lot of people in this world that can relate with that experience, and so I didn’t want to write a book that only 24 others can feel.
Patsy: I really appreciate that and very nicely said. I think anytime we start to journal and that journaling leads us to other places, we’re having the accountability of our own heart telling us where we’re at and what we need, and I think it becomes an exposure that is very valuable as we get answers. And I think that’s part of the key to this is you need to have an answer if you’re going to open up the vulnerability of others. I think you notice something right off the bat in the outline formation of this that was so grounded.
Andrew: Yeah. In my own therapy really, my dad’s a counselor and we were talking once about my deep struggle with lonelinesses, and I called him up one time when I was in the center of that feeling and he said, “These would be some options if you want to find connection.” And it’s literally the outline, so I don’t know if you’ve had good therapy, but…
Ben: I have had therapy, but that was not a part of the intent. That makes me happy.
Andrew: Yeah. He literally said to me, which this is the outline of Ben’s book in finding connectedness, he said, “You can search out connection with other people — friends, community, safe relationships.” With a significant other — that could be some kind of romantic partner, or he said even significant others could be people who know our whole story that we feel close and intimate to, maybe a family member or a really close friend. And then you may need time with yourself, he said, which for me would be getting in the outdoors, hiking. And he said then that’s closely related to needing time with God.
I don’t know if you noticed, but that is literally the outline of your book. So let’s go through some of those because I think people listening in will say, “Hey, yeah, I feel alone,” and we can feel overwhelmed in our feelings of loneliness. And when we’re overwhelmed, we really know where to start. Well, you’ve got some great starting points, and one of the first points is connection with others. So go ahead and tell me, if you’re feeling alone and you’re wanting to feel connected, what does connection with others mean?
Ben: For me, it means vulnerability. A lot of this book comes from a place of about a year of interviewing people, not with the intent of writing their stories always but with the intent of learning.
I knew I was entering into a process after I kind of had written my own story out that was gonna be way over my head. I am not a counselor myself, but I knew what I was feeling and I had done the work to try to put what I was feeling on paper. What consistently came up in my conversations when people said, “I just feel like I’m missing the mark on friendships,” was they weren’t allowing themselves to be known.
So in the book, I talk about being naked and unafraid, not only in front of your romantic partner but also in front of your friendships, the healthy ones, the ones that you want to dive deeper into. If you really want them to love you, then they’re going to have to know your story, and your story at times cannot be filtered. It has to be real. And so connecting with others is allowing yourself to be seen.
Also, I don’t think you can connect with others until you can connect with yourself, and so one of the first pieces here is allowing the labels and the shame and the guilt that’s been placed on yourself, and that you’ve placed on yourself, to kind of get ripped away long enough to allow yourself to confidently enter friendships and allow that confidence to lead how far it will go.
Patsy: I tell people, when you start to journal your story, that first step leads you into personal therapy. You don’t even mean for it to, but there it is. You either see you have a problem that you don’t know the solution to and you’re going to have to have help, or you write it and realize that in the process of certain losses and gains you’ve learned far more than you realized. And that can be a gift that you can offer to others.
Andrew: Talking about reconnected to self, which that is how the book is structured is first connection with self and then connection with others. Dive into what it looks like for you to connect with yourself because I think some people almost have a criticism of people that say, “I need to have some time with myself.” They might see that as a very selfish thing, or they might see it as kind of a hippie… So what does that mean and look like for you to connect, or reconnect, with yourself?
Ben: Yeah, you’re right. Even today, a lot of the language is I’m gonna be about me, and that’s not at all what I mean here. This is not about making a life focused on yourself. This isn’t about a life of selfishness. But in order to understand myself so that I can accurately communicate with others, I have to do a deep dive into who I am and what’s brought me here.
In fact, an interesting thing about the book is through writing this book, it sent me into counseling, as you just said, because I was pulling back traumas and shame and guilt that I had placed on myself for years. And I was going back in my mind and remembering what caused it, how I reacted to it, and then how quickly I pushed it away. I’ve lived a lot of my life trying to figure out how I can heal quicker, and not heal as in fully heal, just like how I can move on faster to get to a place where I could just continue to be here in this world.
But what this book did is it slowed me down. It brought me back and it made me remember what it was that had hurt me so bad or what it was that confused me so bad. And so that’s what I mean when I say connect with self. It’s a scary process. It’s a really scary process, but you have to take time to allow yourself to understand why you are the way you are.
It’s been one of the most beautiful things for me as well because now I know what triggers me. Now I know why I react the way I do. I can also know when I’m healthy and when I’m not healthy. Like if I’m reacting quickly and with frustration and anger or I’m pulling away, I know I’m not in a healthy place overall. I can now evaluate that.
And so the start is — I’m with you, Patsy — starting to write. Like slow down. Re-evaluate. And also through that, as the ideas of shame and guilt and the labels that we place on us or parents placed on us or friends have placed on us or if our teachers did, start to eliminate those and know that you are so much more than all of that stuff. And then to start to rebuild, but take all those things with you that you’ve learned along the way.
Andrew: I think one of the scariest things about spending time with myself or connecting with myself, which sounds even scarier, is that if I sit still long enough to do that, I might come to the place that and discover that I really don’t like myself, and then I’ve got to face up to that. I’ve got to learn how to love myself honestly, which that can sound very woo-woo, hippie too.
But from what I understand, even from a spiritual perspective, to learn to love myself, to learn to receive how I was originally created, how God sees me, that’s me learning to love myself. Where maybe connectedness with self and God does hit a similar place sometimes because if I can learn to love myself, that means I can learn to surrender to who God is saying I am. And through that then, because this is what you’re saying — reconnect to self and reconnect to others — I can truly love others and I can truly trust others, that when I bring them my story, they’re not going to feel the same way about me that I did feel about myself. Does that make sense?
So I think a lot of people are really scared of the deep dive because I’m not sure that they like themselves and they know that’s what’s going to be on the other side of that. And that takes time to work through, right? We all don’t like things about ourselves. I mean, I don’t think many of us are in love with ourselves.
Patsy: Well, I’ve met a few. I’m not giving names.
Ben: You’re right. As we’ll talk about, the book goes on to talk about a connection with God, but one of the parts that I think’s always important to understand as we deep dive into ourselves is that God still hasn’t left us at any point in time.
Patsy: That’s right.
Ben: That God has stayed constant. That God has continued to love us, even when we don’t love ourselves. That through the process of opening up the wounds and the trauma, knowing that God has always been there beside us to guide and direct and to love. And I think that’s one of the coolest things, and maybe that’s just me.
Maybe nobody else out there listening to this will relate to that, but when I was at my worst, when I was writing this book when I was at my worst, when I was hating myself the most, when I was bringing back these traumas and wounds, one of the things — not in a weird Christian-ese way, not to dismiss what I was feeling — but when I was at worst, there’s a moment when God speaks and says, “I’m still here.”
When you’re crying out going, Who am I? What have I done? Where am I going?, and the reminder and the little voice and the little whisper goes, Yeah, and I’m still here. It’s cool because then for the first time maybe you felt loved at your worst. This may be the first time you’ve felt at your worst.
The second part of this is I think in Western Christianity today and a lot of the book I studied is contemplation has been pushed out the window because it’s gotten a little hippie-dippie too, right? The word “contemplation” or “meditation” has these negative connotations to them. But a lot of what Jesus did is pray and isolate and go and meditate and find space away from the crowds to be in silence and to be in prayer and to be in communication with God, just to listen for that little small voice.
And that’s a lot of what this is. A lot of this book comes from a place of just contemplation, of sitting in silence and sitting waiting to hear something. And so those two things are incredible important. To know that God has never left you but also know that spending time with yourself doesn’t have to be woo-woo. It’s actually an amazing spiritual practice that Jesus has shown up multiple times in my life and I know in the lives of others when you just are in silence.
Patsy: You talk a great deal about vulnerability. Do you not think that there are people you cannot trust sharing your vulnerability with, less they take advantage of that?
Ben: Yeah. I mean, that question can be answered in a couple ways. Yes, I do believe there are people that you need to be careful of. You don’t want to open yourself up just for more pain. But at the same time, love requires risk.
Patsy: Absolutely.
Ben: And I think we’re going to be hurt in this life. There’s going to be disappointments. We’re going to feel pain. We’re going to be disappointed by the reaction of others. We’re going to feel misunderstood. Even after you’ve done a lot of the work on yourself, you’re gonna still feel misunderstood. But I think if we’re going to love hard, love well, and love constantly, then you’re opening yourself up for that risk.
But I also would again, just to remind everybody, that when you do get hurt, God still is there, and not in a weird distant way. Like God is still there, so you’re never alone, that you’re never isolated, that you’re still being seen and loved on and cared for, and you’ve got to believe that even in your deepest pains that God is still there. And so when you do open up yourself to vulnerability and pain, you know there’s always still a path to healing. There’s always still a path forward.
But I do think there’s wisdom in vulnerability. And I think all of us could agree on that, but at the same time, vulnerability will also open you up to be hurt and I think that’s part of this life.
Patsy: It not only opens you up to be hurt, but it opens you up to be heard. And in the hearing is the understanding that you are more than you know. You’re capable of entering into relationship even when that relationship has been difficult. You’re capable of entering in more freely the more you resolve within yourself. The more you gain insight and tools, you gain the wisdom to know how to go back into a circle of involvement and risk, whether you’ll be hurt or heard.
“[Vulnerability] not only opens you up to be hurt, but it opens you up to be heard.”
Andrew: Well, and the more gracious we become, the more we resolve within yourself, which this comes back to something, Ben, that you said earlier, the more we are able to extend grace to others.
Maybe culturally we find ourself in a place of less grace or less space for grace because we’re not sitting down with each other and we’re not sitting down with ourselves. I mean, I think there’s a lot connected between what you’re talking about contemplation and reserving space and time to think and to be and to meditate and to pray that goes hand in hand with being able to receive other people exactly as they are with no strings attached. There’s a lot of synergy between that, and so it’s very interesting what you’re talking about.
When we come back, we want to get into that other link of reconnection, which is romantic. So we want to get the Mickey-Minnie Sweetheart Bridge and the romcom, and we’ll see what happens.
But you are listening to Bridges with my co-host and good friend Patsy Clairmont. I’m Andrew Greer, and we’re here with our guest Ben Higgins. We’ll be back in a second.
Andrew: Patsy, I hear that you have a book club.
Patsy: I do. Books are what God used to help heal me, so it delights me to offer that service to others, that they could sign up, anybody. All y’alls, come on in. We want you to join in the book club, and we will read ourselves silly and sane. We’ll have different selections, one every month with a bonus. You can check it out: patsyclairmont.com. And also on that page, you’ll see that I do cheerleading for people. I coach them in helping them stir up their creativity to tell their story. But here’s what I know: You’re into a different kind of storytelling, and you’ve been set up to win awards for what you’ve done.
Andrew: I love music, and I have a new record out called Tune My Heart, and it includes some of my really close friends, some of your friends, like Sandra McCracken and Cindy Morgan and Buddy Greene. And you can find that record anywhere you stream or download, or at andrew-greer.com. You know what else, Patsy?
Patsy: What?
Andrew: I’ve got another podcast. It’s not my favorite podcast, but if you like listening to Bridges, then you might like listening to and viewing Dinner Conversations with our pal Mark Lowry and myself. You can find it on Apple Podcasts or Amazon Prime, or simply go to dinner-conversations.com.
Bridges Sponsorship Message
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Andrew: That’s right. One winner and a guest will receive roundtrip airfare, one night’s lodging, and ground transportation for a getaway in our hometown, Patsy, of Franklin, Tennessee. Plus, we’ll take you to dinner and interview you on a special episode of Bridges.
Patsy: The winner will be drawn on March 31, 2021, so get your chicken before then.
Patsy: Ben, I found a quote, and I wanted to run it past you and see what you thought about it. “Men build too many walls and not enough bridges.” Joseph Newton said that. What do you think about that statement? Do you think it’s a tendency of men to build a wall before they’ll build a bridge?
Ben: I think it has been. It’s interesting because my first reaction mentally was, I hope not, or I hope it doesn’t continue, or I don’t know if that’s helpful. I’ve met a lot of men — I’ve met a lot of people — who’ve lived in their own little silos, especially right now, and they feel like they can’t exit their silo because this is their safe place. It’s comfortable inside. And what it ends up doing, it does, it isolates, which is what the book’s about.
I hear that quote, and I do think it’s true because I think it’s comfortable and I think it feels safe, but I don’t know if it’s helpful and I don’t know if it’s healthy and I don’t know if it’s good.
Patsy: I agree. I think it is a human tendency. I don’t think this is just about men as in male, but men as in humans tend to build a wall before a bridge because it is a safer place than being known.
Andrew: Well, there’s an ease to it versus an effort. And it seems like what you’re speaking about in the book and what you’ve been talking about today, all of it requires some sort of effort on our part. Risk requires effort along with courage. You have taken that risk in that you are now engaged.
“Risk requires effort along with courage.”
Ben: Yes, to somebody from Franklin, Tennessee.
Patsy: Alright, that’s gotta go well for you.
Andrew: We approve.
Ben: We’re off to a good start. Yeah, it’s a great place.
Andrew: Do you plan on living here? Where are y’all gonna live?
Ben: We’re gonna live in Denver for a bit. That’s where I live now. I’m from Indiana. I moved out to Denver, and she’s gonna come out and join me. She went to Ole Miss, she grew up in Franklin, she’s living here now, and so it’s kind of our next step is to take an adventure on our own for a bit. But Franklin obviously is a great place. I wouldn’t be shocked if we find ourselves here one day, but not yet.
Andrew: How did this relationship transpire?
Ben: It’s a great story. I was out here for a fundraiser actually, and I was staying in downtown Nashville. I believe it’s a Marriott. It’s really close to Bridgestone Arena, sits right beside it. I was checking in. I’ll tell this story quickly. I walked in, I was checking in, and there was a hockey team checking in to the front desk. And there’s all these people lined up to take pictures with the hockey team. So I checked in, I went upstairs, and I was like, I wonder what hockey team that was. And so my way of finding out was to get on Instagram and look at the location that I was in to see who else had tagged that location in a picture, and hopefully they would’ve said, “Hey, this is so-and-so from this hockey team.” I was bored. There wasn’t a lot going on.
Andrew: Very resourceful Millennial right there.
Ben: So when I got on to the tagged locations, Bridgestone Arena’s tagged location actually came up because I was so close to it, and my now fiancé’s picture came up on those tagged locations and she was standing there at the hockey game. I was like, That girl’s beautiful, like absolutely gorgeous.
My buddies had just convinced me that messaging people on Instagram was the way to start getting to know somebody. That you have this whole thing where you can look at their pictures, look at their family, look at their life, then you can DM them, message them, and then they’ll respond back and it’s bliss ever since then. So I was like, Alright, this girl’s beautiful, but I don’t have it in me to message her, and so I screenshotted her picture, totally forgot about it. That was in February, and on Thanksgiving of 2018…
Andrew: Wow, so almost a year later.
Ben: Almost, yeah. It was a long time. We had taken family pictures at Thanksgiving, and I’d ran out of storage on my phone. I was going back through and deleting old pictures, and I came across that picture and I said, You know what, tonight’s the night.
Patsy: I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna take a risk.
Ben: I’m gonna take a risk. And I did. And I messaged her some corny message like, “Hey, if you’re ever in Denver and want to go on a date, let me know.” She’s like, “I’m never in Denver, but I would like to go on a date.” So I said, “Deal,” and we started FaceTiming and talking. Now we’re engaged, and it’s the best thing ever. It’s so peaceful. That’s how I explain it.
My buddies ask me, “How do you know when they’re the one?” I was like, I guess I can’t really answer that question, but what I know about my relationship is it’s very exciting, it’s very fun, but it’s just very peaceful. It feels very much like a great enhancement to my life, and I hope she would say the same.
Patsy: Sweet.
Andrew: Yeah. Patsy, you were telling me earlier about what you had said to either one of your grandboys about how someone you’re dating treats… This reminds me of what Ben is saying. Do you remember what I’m talking about, or am I going down a road that’s not going to turn up anytime soon?
Patsy: Am I looking lost?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. She’s looking at me as if this had not been talked about before.
Patsy: I remember telling you that I always have my boys ask questions. I think it’s important that we find out who people are because the more they can tell you about who they are, the more you’re aware that they know who they are. And that’s good information to have if you want to have an important relationship.
So if you’re asking them just common questions — What’s your favorite food? What’s your favorite car? What’s your favorite song? — and they can’t answer anything directly, then I proceed carefully till you found out a little more about them because it’s, as you’ve learned in your life, really important to figure out who you are so you can go into a relationship a little more whole and a little more capable of evaluating where a person is at and if you’re compatible.
Now, I say all that, and I’m a gal who got married when I was 17 to a guy who lived 600 miles away and our first date alone was our wedding night, so I don’t know that I can verify for a lot of people how to enter into the relationship. I can just say to you I’ve been married 58 years, and I’m still crazy about the guy.
Ben: Oh my gosh, that’s crazy.
Andrew: Which there’s something to that. I remember one question you were asking, like what do you like about the person you’re with and how they treat you? And it sounds like you can answer that, but it sounds like with your fiancé part of what you like is the fact that you do feel at rest and feel peaceful, that there’s not a constant need for some kind of energy or motivation outside of just the relationship.
Ben: Yeah. The other part of it is Jessica is the most empathetic human I’ve ever met, and I’d say that is probably the thing that I admire the most because I can tend to get pretty judgmental and dismissive fairly quickly. And so having her by my side to continue to keep me on a good path, but also just to see the way she sees the world, to be her partner as the way she interacts with people, the way she listens to stories, the way she listens to other humans — the way she listens to me — is an incredibly attractive quality for me because I know that my life will be enhanced with her in it because I know she’s going to make me a better person because she’s a better human than I’ll ever be.
The other piece of what I really love in our relationship is Jessica has an amazing curiosity. So when you talk about asking questions, she’s just curious about everything, which is so fun because the older I get, the more I realize the less I know. And so asking questions about…
Patsy: Wait till you get up here.
Ben: So the only thing I’ve got nowadays is to ask a bunch of questions and try to come up with the best answers, and to have somebody beside you asking the questions as well is so exciting. It’s so fun. It makes life an adventure.
Patsy: And you’re glad they’re interested enough to resource who you are. That’s great.
Andrew: We’re talking about things of a complementary nature, which goes back to any level of this connectedness, whether reconnecting with self, with others, with a significant other, or with God. All of that, if we allow ourselves to put ourselves out there, to take that risk to relate to others, we will find compliments in every relationship, whether it be family, friends, romantic partners, et cetera. And so I think it’s extremely important. I think, Ben, one of the things you’ve highlighted throughout this is the willingness with our pain and with the vulnerable places in our life to be willing to take that risk to connect with others.
We’re certainly thankful you took the risk to connect with the old Boomer and Millennial today.
Patsy: You’ve been listening to Ben Higgins, our guest, and his book is Alone in Plain Sight: Searching for Connection. And we would encourage you, if you’re searching for connection, if you’re feeling lonely or isolated or misunderstood, that you give this book a look, for inside the pages are going to be some insights that are hopefully gonna come alive within you and make a difference.
I am Patsy Clairmont, and I’m a Boomer.
Andrew: And I’m Andrew Greer, and I’m a Millennial.
Patsy: And you’ve been listening to Bridges.
Andrew: Spiritual Connections Through Generational Conversations. Ben, thank you so much for being with us.
Ben: Thank you guys. It means a lot.
Andrew: We’ll see you next time.
Patsy: Bridges is co-produced by Andrew Greer and myself, Patsy Clairmont.
Andrew: And our podcast is recorded and mixed by Jesse Phillips at the Arcade in Franklin, Tennessee.
Patsy: Remember, don’t forget to leave us a rating, a review, or a comment. It all helps our little show get going.
Andrew: To find out more about my co-host Patsy Clairmont or myself, Andrew Greer, or to read transcripts of our show, simply go to bridgesshow.com.