Episode 10: Holidays 2020-Style: What Does This Make Possible?
Transcript
Patsy: Hi, I’m Patsy Clairmont, and I’m a Boomer.
Andrew: I’m Andrew Greer, and I’m a Millennial.
Patsy: And you are listening to Bridges.
Andrew: Spiritual Connections Through Generational Conversations. Do you know what we have on the table today for our episode?
Patsy: I can hardly wait. I do know, but I want you to say so.
Andrew: Well, it’s all about the holidays. This is part three of a series of holiday-themed episodes that we’ve been facilitating right here at Bridges. Of course, the last two we’ve had guests — the wonderful women of Point of Grace, who we know for their Christmastime music and the way they’ve soundtracked our holiday lives, and then our good friend Laura Cooksey, who mentioned a lot about hospitality, helping people be seen and welcomed during the holidays.
Well, for this specific episode, it’s just you and me, Patsy.
Patsy: Uh oh.
Andrew: You and me, girl. That’s right. For the holidays, we’re bringing it back. Our budgets are gone, like most people during the holidays, right. Except this year, we find ourselves in a really unusual holiday season of the climate of this year and all the new things we’ve had to adapt and change to.
And expectations are always a thing during the holidays. We have self-made expectations, imposed expectations, cultural expectations, and sometimes maneuvering those expectations starts to diminish the real beautiful possibilities of this season and it gets a little hairy. So we want to have this conversation. This is a safe space today. This next few minutes is a time you can relax and rest with us, and we’re just going to talk about even our own expectations and how we are going to gauge those and maybe shift and change those a bit into some really wonderful possibilities for our holiday season.
“Expectations are always a thing during the holidays.”
Patsy: And as usual, we have to have a bridge because that’s just the way I roll. And our bridge this time is a very different one, and it is known as Narnia. Lucy had the bridge of Narnia that took her from her real life into a fanciful world, and don’t we all wish we had that option, especially in the season, the long year, of 2020. Where do we go to escape? Where’s my wardrobe? Where’s Narnia? And actually, I think you’ll find this interesting, Andrew. I have a Narnia. Yes, I know. Shock.
Andrew: In the house I’ve been in?
Patsy: Yes, I do, but I wasn’t going to tell you about it. We have a huge wardrobe. It was a gift from friends. It is 10-feet tall. It took six men to get it into the house, and it was quite the effort and it’s quite a piece. I only have one spot in my whole house that can contain it, but every time I see it, I think, I think I’ll step through there and see if I can find Lucy and that other world. But even there, there was difficulties, so maybe I’ll just hang tight in my own world and see if I can do a good job with it.
Andrew: Well, it’s I think very human nature for us to want to escape at times.
Patsy: That’s true.
Andrew: And I don’t know that that’s always the worst idea. There are healthy ways to have a little bit of a mind break. Sometimes that’s through reading, taking a jog, listening to music. There’s all kinds of things.
Patsy: Or a movie.
Andrew: Movie, that’s right. And our imagination, which is part of the brilliance of The Chronicles of Narnia is the imaginative spirit and, of course, the children’s adventuresome spirit within their imaginations really is a wonderful thing. But we don’t want to get too far out of touch from reality, right?
Patsy: That’s right. But our imagination can help us with our creativity and how we approach a season that’s different than what we would’ve anticipated or even desired. So if we find ourself in this hard place for the holidays where we can’t have some of the people we anticipated would be at our table and around our tree, what can we do to fill in some of the gaps? I don’t think you ever replace people, but I think we have the opportunity to do things in an unexpected way that could end up being deeply satisfying.
Andrew: Speaking of hard places for the holidays, you have a story that you told me once about a place that your family, that you and Les and the two boys, found yourself in unexpected, speaking about expectations and un-expectations, one holiday season, and I think you have some ideas of how to turn those hardships into something really maybe even happy.
Patsy: Well, we were in a time period where we were not expecting any changes, and my husband went to work and was told that he was no longer employed there. That had never happened to him in his lifetime or during our marriage where he was unemployed, and certainly from this position he was so excited about. But the gentleman who owned the plant where Les was a supervisor needed the position for a brother-in-law who had just moved in town, and so poor Les was sent packing.
He got home and he was dismayed, and I joined him in the dismay and then I thought, This can’t be. We can’t both feel so badly about this that we do not have that turnaround grace to receive our boys in a way during this hard season that would help buoy their own hearts. So I began thinking and praying, Lord, how can we help the boys have a good Christmas even though we have so little to offer them? Because we didn’t have a reserve in the bank. We had lived paycheck to paycheck, so that meant we were in a predicament.
But that’s when God does some of His best work. He sends people through your life to do things that you’d never expected you would even need, and when the answers come, your gratitude is expanded. And I began thinking, Now how can we as a family give gifts to each other without the funds?
We had a little loose change around. Believe me, we were digging in all the cupboards and shaking all the piggy banks to get everything out we could. And I said to our oldest, Marty, he was probably 11, and Jason was not quite 3, so I didn’t have to explain anything to Jason.
Andrew: But Marty had some Christmas expectations.
Patsy: Marty had expectations, and I said to him, “Honey, Jesus, there are only three gifts mentioned that He got for the first Christmas.”
Andrew: Playing the God card.
Patsy: Yes, yes. I was using whatever I could. I said, “Now perhaps you might realize that three gifts is a lot for any child.” And he said, “Oh mom, I don’t need three gifts. I’ve only got one thing I’d like. I’d like a Game of Life.” Well, life-giving was that answer for this mama because I didn’t want to disappoint him. I could afford to go get him the Game of Life, and since he didn’t want anything else, he probably wasn’t going to get it because I didn’t have much left.
Then I thought, What am I going to do with my little guy? I’ll need something wrapped up, maybe an old toy I could paint on or something. But a friend called me one day and she said, “I was just cleaning out my son’s room, and I’ve got a box of Hot Wheels cars that I need to get rid of. Is that anything your boys would be interested in?” Well, Jason liked nothing better than pushing little Hot Wheels around. I mean, it was his favorite thing. “Car, car. Truck, truck.” That was his deal. So I took those, and those were his gift and there must’ve been 30 of them in that basket she brought over. Those went on, not only did he play with them but both his sons have played with them. We still have that box of Hot Wheels cars, so they have more than served their purpose.
You know, there is no telling in this season, if we just give God the space, how He will grace our lives with people who have generous spirits and, at times, don’t even realize that the little they’re offering is really gonna be turned into a lot by a God who is a gift-giver. Every good gift comes from above, from the Father of lights in whom there is no shadow of turning.
Andrew: It is interesting to think about if we aren’t open to receiving from others, it may be easier or we may be more prone to believe that God is not a giver of good gifts. You know, there’s something about the openness without ourselves to others and to receiving, which of course is a little bit the opposite of pride, right. Pride doesn’t allow us to receive, but when we are humble and when we find ourselves in humble places and we relax into that maybe or at least accept it, then we’re able to receive the help from others. And in that, I think there is a more defined connection to God, who is our helper.
Patsy: And I had prayed that God would give me eyes to see beyond our situation to what He might like to do in the midst of it, and one of the things that happened was before Christmas our little tree we had, Christmas tree, died. The house was dry. It dried out the tree in a way that was pathetic. There were needles everywhere, so we had to drag it to the road, and I thought, Lord, this isn’t going well. What can I do? And about that time, two doors down a neighbor had decided that they were going to go to their family in the South. We lived in Michigan at that time. And because it was unexpected, they had a flourishing tree in the house that they didn’t want to leave set up while they were away, so they dragged this great tree to the road by the garbage can. I saw that tree, and I said, “Thank you, Lord.” And when those people drove out of the subdivision, you could see me hustling down the road to get that tree and drag it back home. I had it set up and decorated before you knew what happened. And I thought, Isn’t God good? He even gives trees.
Andrew: I love this story because I love all the places within the story where there were certain expectations, those expectations could not be met, and yet there was possibility that was born out of it that really has probably — I don’t want to speak for you — but produced a very memorable Christmas. Out of all your Christmas memories, this one bubbles to the surface.
Patsy: Les and I have been married 58 years, 58 Christmases, and that is the one we go to first, the Christmas when we had nothing and ended up feeling like we had everything. I remember the night before Christmas there was a tap on the door, and there stood a friend’s daughter with a box and she handed it in and said, “This is from our family. Merry Christmas.” And she was gone, and we rushed into the living room and we sat down on the floor, all four of us hanging over the box, and opened it up to the most delicious array of cookies and candies and chocolate bars. And there was one little gift in there for each of us to make it very personal.
I tell you what. That was the kindest thing they could’ve done for us because my own parents, whom we usually spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with, had decided at the last minute that they were going south. I don’t know what that season was about. We should’ve followed all these people. So they went south for the holidays, and we had to figure it out on our own. That was the best thing that could’ve happened because we really worked at doing what we could for each other.
Marty had built a little bookshelf in his shop class. It was kind of a beginner shop class, and he had built this little bookshelf. They took it out to the garage, my husband and he, unbeknownst to me and sanded it down and painted it, turned it the other direction, put a bow on it, and called it a plant stand. So that was my Christmas present, and I was thrilled. I’ve never forgotten that plant stand.
Andrew: Well, whether you find yourself by yourself for these holidays or surrounded by more people than you can handle, we’re here for you, and we’re here to talk some more about surprises and surprising possibilities amid your unmet expectations during the holidays.
This is Bridges, and of course, I’ve got my co-host and good friend here, Patsy Clairmont, and I’m Andrew Greer. We’ll be back in a minute.
Bridges Sponsorship Message
Patsy: “Where would I be if I did not believe I would experience the Lord’s favor in the land of the living? Rely on the Lord! Be strong and confident! Rely on the Lord!” Those are the last two verses of Psalm 27 from the Abide Bible. It is a new bible that has been in my home now for several months, so I’ve had time to work with it and it to work inside of me. It offers beautiful, old art that is associated with verses, so it helps it to become a bigger picture in our mind and our retention is improved. It has places for us to journal on the side as we read. It also has instructions on how to pray this Scripture, how to meditate on it, how to contemplate it so we can sit and soak in God’s Word and allow it to dwell richly within us.
Andrew: What I love about the Abide Bible is that it’s invitational, not just informational. It’s inviting us not to just exercise the Word of God in our head but to really invite it to dwell in our hearts, which to me reminds me of John 15:4: “Abide in me and I in you.” So you can order your copy of the Abide Bible today at bridgesshow.com/abide.
Bridges Sponsorship Message
Patsy: I’m excited about Food for the Hungry because they know how to get to the need of people. If you meet their needs, then their heart is open to anything else you say, so they’re feeding the children not only to nurture them and prepare them for real life but to hear about Jesus. And one of the ways that they’re able to help these families and it be sustainable is by chickens, Andrew.
Andrew: That’s right. It’s incredible. For just $14, you can provide a family with a chicken, and if you want to multiply that blessing, you can provide them with two chickens for just $28. And we know that chickens multiply, so that’s more eggs for the children to have the protein that they need, for them to sell the extras at market, and those chickens last eight to 10 years. It’s a huge blessing. All you have to do is go to fh.org/bridges.
Patsy: We find ourselves in an unusual situation, and oftentimes, when that occurs, there is a little statement that goes through my mind that a friend said to me on a number of occasions that has served me well since and I think could be helpful to you. And that is: When something happens that we didn’t think was going to occur and we may not like it, she would say to me, “What does this make possible?” God bless you, Gail, for asking me that again and again because now my mind just immediately goes to that question when something happens and I’m not pleased about it. And then I stop and I ask myself, Okay, Patsy. What does this make possible for you?
When we turn our perspective, Andrew, when we turn our willingness to receive something different than what we wanted, we often are surprised.
“When we turn our willingness to receive something different than what we wanted, we often are surprised.”
Andrew: It seems to suggest a life… In fact, I’ll say this: The people that I am most drawn to, that I find most attractive just in wanting to relate to, whether that’s in my family or my friend group or community, as I get to know them, I notice that they’re more fluid in the way that they live their life, which may be another word for more surrendered from a spiritual perspective. And I think that’s because they are actually living out this question: What does this make possible?
That question takes us out of our rigidity, out of the need to control everything, which when you come down to it, we know that we actually are in control of very little. So the sooner or the more able we are to relax into the reality of indeed I am not in control of most things, the more that I’m able to go along for the ride, which I don’t think suggests… Sometimes people hear “go along for the ride” or think of fluid lifestyle being very hippie talk and that you’re just kind of going in the moment versus living a life with purpose. But I actually think that’s not true at all. In fact, this question — what does this make possible? — is extremely purposeful because it keeps us also from going into an emotionally dreary place of depression.
Anytime my expectations are not met, which I even as a child and especially around the holidays I would find myself with my personality, and that was one of wanting everything to be just right. And my parents are not that way. My parents I do think live with a wider perspective. Of course, they were a lot older than I am, they are and they were, and so as a child, I found myself with all this need, especially again around the holidays, and I think that’s because I loved the family being together. And I loved some of the magic of Christmastime through the music. As a musician, I absolutely loved how the season appealed to our senses, and I wanted to squeeze every ounce of it out, but in order to do that, I felt like I had to control every situation.
Now, as a child, my parents didn’t allow me to be in control of every situation, so I had to come to terms with that, and one way to do that was to just sit back and relax and see others, hear others, observe others, like What are their expectations? That’s one of the interesting things. I have certain expectations. Those may go unmet. But part of this question — what does this make possible? — is also what did that make possible for someone else because they have expectations as well, and if I care about them, I would like at least maybe one of their expectations in life to be met. And me laying aside one of my expectations might allow for that to come true.
Patsy: I think one of the things you brought up that I really identify with is that during the holidays we can be far more edgy in our emotions, and I could go from Tigger to Eeyore in a heartbeat during the holiday time. So I really had to learn how to reign that in to not allow myself to get so excited I was beyond living with or so sad that nobody cared to live with me.
So finding balance is a journey, and it is often something you have to practice before you get better at it, so don’t be disappointed in yourself. And when you first ask the question in a disappointment — what does this make possible? — don’t be surprised if your first answer isn’t full of bubbles and Narnia. Give yourself the opportunity to live in the solution while you watch what God can do with what you hadn’t expected.
Andrew: And don’t keep it to yourself either. Don’t be afraid to voice your disappointments. Disappointment does not have to mean that you’re teetering over the edge of depression or of anything unhealthy at all. It is okay to be disappointed. It is okay to vocalize, to verbalize, that this is kind of what I wanted and this is in fact the reality of where we are, whether that be with your spouse or with you kids, because that could open up a conversation that… Because if I’m trying to make everything good out of what is not so great by myself, that is just gonna lead to more unmet expectations in my opinion. And so if we open the conversation up to the family, to the community that is around you, of like, you know, this is disappointing, but here’s something that may come from this that we can do together.
I think because of the culture we find ourselves in of needing to present so much… I personally as a performer and then as someone who enjoys platforms of different kinds and presenting things to people, I like things to be presented well. I enjoy things being done with excellence and quality so that they will relate to someone. But that drive for perfection, which I think many more people experience or find coming out, bubbling up to the surface in their own personalities during the holidays, can really destroy the environment for those around us in our own life. And so we have to take the opportunity to go, Okay, here’s what I’d love to see happen, but the road may take us down a different path.
Patsy: Yes. And I think with children, we often as parents think that they are going to be disappointed if they don’t get everything they want. Where really that’s more our expectation than theirs, just like with my son Marty. I was certain he was going to have a problem with only three gifts, and he didn’t even want three gifts. He said, “No, I just want a Game of Life.” And I thought, Well, wouldn’t life be better if we could all just be satisfied with a little instead of expecting a lot. Because when we move out of those expectations, it makes space for the joy of surprise when we get even more than we could’ve imagined.
Now listen, watch this with husbands. After 58 years of marriage, I can tell you that my husband and I talk about what we are giving each other before the holiday because otherwise we just set ourself up for disappointment. Les is like Marty. He never wants much. Patsy’s got an idea of what she’d like to have, so it is good to talk it through so you don’t end up feeling hardship year after year if the person just doesn’t quite get your gift need.
Andrew: I think that’s absolutely right. Put it out on the table. That is at least one area of the holidays that you can enjoy rather than have discord or tension about, which opens up to being unified and really facilitating and perpetuating and encouraging unity throughout your family in the season of the holidays.
You know, when I look back in hindsight, my memories… Well, I guess hindsight is what I have now, but when I look back, the memories of the holidays, which are very warm in my childhood and even into my adulthood, my memories have very little to do, if anything to do, with anything that I received in a material manner, and it has everything to do with people.
Patsy: Amen. And that is so true. People matter, and they matter in ways we don’t even fully understand until we read the story backward. And that’s when you see, Oh, remember when Uncle So-and-So said such-and-such about our aunt and how upset she got and how hard we all laughed together. Well, you get the idea.
“People matter, and they matter in ways we don’t even fully understand until we read the story backward.”
Andrew: Yeah. And that is practical emotional and mental health to look back at the experience that we’ve had and to then be present in that experience now rather than forecasting something that we think will fill some need, et cetera, when we realize, no, how our needs were met were through the presence of people and the company of our companions.
Patsy: And one of the things that was always fun for us in Michigan was when it would snow Christmas Eve, and Christmas morning there would be a fresh layer on everything. It made it so special. But there were Christmases there wasn’t a snowflake anywhere, and the Christmas ended up being incredible because of the people and the way that they loved on you. Things like Christmas breakfast. Oh, what’s better than that?
Andrew: That is right. You know, I grew up wanting a white Christmas. Talk about having to meet unmet expectations head on, I grew up in Texas, and I just thought one year this is gonna be delivered. If I pray hard enough, if I dot my Is, cross my Ts, and tell the Lord I’ll never do those again, I will get the snow on Christmas morning. So far, that is an expectation I have never had met. Now, I could do something about that now if I really wanted it, but it comes back to exactly what you’re saying. What I really wanted was the people, the circle, that was around me, and that was more than any snow drift could ever provide.
We want to get into talking about the perspective of gratitude, how to practice gratitude, as a way to wrap up this conversation and have something tangible maybe to exercise throughout your holiday season. We want to talk about how we’ve been able to do that and maybe some quick tips about how you might be able to do that.
And you’ve been listening to Bridges with...
Patsy: Patsy Clairmont
Andrew: And I’m Andrew Greer, and we’ll be right back.
Andrew: Patsy, I hear that you have a book club.
Patsy: I do. Books are what God used to help heal me, so it delights me to offer that service to others, that they could sign up, anybody. All y’alls, come on in. We want you to join in the book club, and we will read ourselves silly and sane. We’ll have different selections, one every month with a bonus. You can check it out: patsyclairmont.com. And also on that page, you’ll see that I do cheerleading for people. I coach them in helping them stir up their creativity to tell their story. But here’s what I know: You’re into a different kind of storytelling, and you’ve been set up to win awards for what you’ve done.
Andrew: I love music, and I have new record out called Tune My Heart, and it includes some of my really close friends, some of your friends, like Sandra McCracken and Cindy Morgan and Buddy Greene. And you can find that record anywhere you stream or download, or at andrew-greer.com. You know what else, Patsy?
Patsy: What?
Andrew: I’ve got another podcast. It’s not my favorite podcast, but if you like listening to Bridges, then you might like listening to and viewing Dinner Conversations with our pal Mark Lowry and myself. You can find it on Apple Podcasts or Amazon Prime, or simply go to dinner-conversations.com.
Bridges Sponsorship Message
Patsy: Andrew, I’m so excited that one of our sponsors is Food for the Hungry because I like people who are feeding people. I say let’s get to the basic need that a person has, and let’s build up from there. And when you feed a child, you feed their brain, you feed their disposition, you feed their ability to have strength to do the hard work that oftentimes is involved, even if it’s just their studies. If the synapses aren’t snapping, it’s gonna really be tough, so Food for the Hungry’s got the right idea, and they’re talking chickens.
Andrew: That’s right, Patsy. Bawk-bawk-bawk. You can give a family a chicken or a pair of chickens to help them find the nutrition they need on a daily basis, as well as these chickens are producing eggs all the time. We know that, right? We have friends and neighbors who have chickens now here in the States, and they provide those eggs, which then can be sold at market. So a chicken is this warehouse of opportunity for a family. Now, get this: You can provide one chicken for a family in need for $14. That’s it. That’s the chicken. That chicken lives for eight to 10 years and provides those daily eggs. It’s incredible. You can provide a pair of chickens, because we know chickens multiply fast, to help that family on an even deeper level for $28.
Patsy: Yes. I love the idea you can double the blessing for just $28, and this goes to countries like Bolivia, Peru, Ethiopia, Rwanda, and the Dominican Republic. So it’s a wide reach, and it’s something that God spoke to us about and that is giving to the poor and offering something that will help their life. Let’s feed the hungry.
Andrew: Go to fh.org/bridges to provide some chickens for families in need today.
Patsy: And every chicken you purchase for our friends across the world, it becomes an entry into our first ever Bridges giveaway.
Andrew: That’s right. One winner and a guest will receive roundtrip airfare, one night’s lodging, and ground transportation for a getaway in our hometown, Patsy, of Franklin, Tennessee. Plus, we’ll take you to dinner and interview you on a special episode of Bridges.
Patsy: The winner will be drawn on March 31, 2021, so get your chicken before then.
Patsy: One of the ways that we can show gratitude during this season is through creative gift tags so that when you have a little gift or a card for someone that you address it to them according to their gifts. So I might say about you, Andrew, if I were to give you a gift, which I know you’re hoping I will, that I might write on it: To Andrew, my friend who’s so musical and uplifting. So that would be a way to show my gratitude toward him in what I see him as, not just who he is to me but how I see his influence on the lives of many.
My husband I might put: To my darling husband who understands my need for laughter, even when I don’t want to laugh. So there’s just things that are true in our relationship. This is the time for us to put the gratitude into words and use it in a way that they can slip that little tag away and maybe reference a time or two in the months ahead.
Andrew: I love that. I could put on your tag: To the perpetually poetic Patsy, even when I don’t feel like reading poetry.
It is true when we write who someone is, not just to us but how we see them in the world, it’s a way of remembering too, not just recognizing now who they are but remembering how they have influenced our lives. And actually, that little tag, if I did put poetic Patsy, it would remind me of how you have been an encourager to me in places I didn’t even know I either needed encouragement or maybe I had kind of shut down that aspect of me, and poetry was one of those many years ago.
I love that idea. It’s very practical, and like you said, it takes little time and no cash. Another thing that I think is wonderful, and I love this in general. I love everybody helping out when it comes to the holidays or special events. I love that everyone contributes no matter what age. And my friends who have really young kids, most of them are really great about incorporating their children into even the mealtime or the gift-giving and making sure that they feel like they’re hands can contribute and are valuable in the process of hosting a special dinner.
My mom, even though we were all boys, my brothers and I, she encouraged us very much in the kitchen. She didn’t know what our life might look like, and mine, I’m a single guy in my 30s. Well, it came in very handy for me to know my way around the kitchen, just so I’m not always at Taco Bell. She encouraged us to make maybe a certain dish or to be a part of the menu, and then to be a part of everything from setting the table to kind of planning all that out. And my dad loved all of that too, so it was an easy encouragement.
But I would just say, whoever is going to be around your table for the holidays, it’s easy to say, “No, don’t worry. I’ll take care of it.” And to some degree, that’s because it’s easier on us just to take care of it. But take a little effort to think about who are they, what is manageable for them to bring, and let them contribute, or ask them what they’d like to bring and work your menu out around them. I just think a table is so much more full when everyone who sits down at it has had the opportunity to contribute to it.
“A table is so much more full when everyone who sits down at it has had the opportunity to contribute to it.”
Patsy: I couldn’t agree with you more. I think that’s a great reminder for all of us.
Andrew: This attitude of gratitude that we are talking about, it doesn’t always come naturally. It’s something that takes a little exercise. It can be standing still for a moment or sitting down for a moment and being thoughtful about being grateful. And so I encourage you, I think we encourage you, to take small spaces, find a little space. That may be first thing when you get up in the morning. It may be right before you lay your head down to go to sleep because we know it’s a busy season, and even in an unusual year, we find our calendars very full. And that’s a hopeful thing to me. It means we want to be together in whatever way possible we can and we want to celebrate a season that is so very foundational for us as Christians to celebrate. But in that, find a small space to just be quiet and to really exercise that spirit of gratitude. Name one or two people that you are grateful for each day and why you are grateful to them. Make a little gift tag in your mind for them even if you’re not presenting them with a physical gift.
Patsy: It’s our longing that you would have a wardrobe of blessing this Christmas, that your Narnia would spread throughout your heart and your home, that you would be satisfied with where you’re at and who you’re with and what God can do right in the midst of that. Each of our situations is unique to our own families, and so while some may not be all we wanted, our God is capable of making it more than we could believe when our heart is attuned to Him. So we bless you in the strong and the lovely name of Jesus, the Savior that was born long ago for purposes that continue to be throughout eternity. In Jesus’ name, amen.
Patsy: Bridges is co-produced by Andrew Greer and myself, Patsy Clairmont.
Andrew: And our podcast is recorded and mixed by Jesse Phillips at the Arcade in Franklin, Tennessee.
Patsy: Remember, don’t forget to leave us a rating, a review, or a comment. It all helps our little show get going.
Andrew: To find out more about my co-host Patsy Clairmont or myself, Andrew Greer, or to read transcripts of our show, simply go to bridgesshow.com.