Episode 24: Ruth Chou Simons: Beauty...Why It Matters
Transcript
Patsy: Hi, I’m Patsy Clairmont, and I’m a Boomer.
Andrew: And I’m Andrew Greer, and I’m a Millennial.
Patsy: And you are listening to Bridges.
Andrew: Spiritual Connections Through Generational Conversations
Patsy: I’m glad bridges connect us because I like being connected to you, Andrew. You help me to see a youthful perspective rather than just a well-seasoned perspective. Very well seasoned. And I would say this, that our guest that we’re going to have on gives us a different perspective yet because she gives us a perspective of beauty and beholding things that God has placed in our life path.
Andrew: That’s right. Ruth Chou Simons, a wonderful artist and author, and she is a part of this very special series of podcasts that we’re doing around the release of this new book and music project called FAITHFUL that David C. Cook, Integrity Music, and Compassion have done a wonderful job of compiling. She’s one of a list of names of wonderful people, like Ginny Owens, who we already had on the podcast, Kelly Minter, Amy Grant, Lisa Harper. But Ruth is talking, just like you said, about how do we behold, how do we become, and how do we embrace the beauty that is around us at all times.
By the way, I like being connected to you too.
Patsy: One of the things that she also likes to spend her time helping us understand is grace. And her first book was GraceLaced, which many of our listeners will probably be aware of.
Andrew: So pay attention to this conversation. It’s a wonderful one with Ruth Chou Simons.
Patsy: And we can’t have a conversation on this show without talking about a bridge, and I’ve got a couple of them to talk about. One of my favorite artists is van Gogh, and he painted a bridge over a beautiful pond full of water lilies, and it’s called “Water Lilies and a Japanese Bridge.” And the architecture of it is arched. It’s very invitational, and I love when I’m invited to a beautiful place. There’s something about that that calls my heart. I want to see the view, and I want to know what’s on the other side.
Now another painter that you’re going to find has a special place in our guest’s life is Georgia O’Keeffe, and she painted a bridge too. In 1949, she painted the Brooklyn Bridge as a way to say goodbye to New York, and it would give her a bridge over all the way to New Mexico, where new things were going to happen in her heart and in her vision for art and things that would place her as one of the most influential of the 20th century in the field of artistry.
And all of that leads us to our very special guest. Do you want to tell them who that is?
Andrew: I would love to introduce her. We have with us today Ruth Chou Simons, and when you talk about connecting art and message and all the influence of someone like Georgia O’Keeffe, we can look to your work, Ruth, just over even the past few years, and your books, your artistry, your messages to say you are speaking something to hundreds of thousands of women. Thank you for being with us today.
Ruth: Thanks so much for having me. What an honor to be here.
Andrew: Well, listen. The first question is I’ve got to ask as the boy in the room, the only boy in the room. Well, Jesse’s engineering — he’s a boy too. But you have six boys, and the first though was like you have been influencing so many women specifically through your messages. Do any of those messages translate to your boys at home?
Ruth: Oh, absolutely. You know, I would say at the heart of my desire for women is that they might turn their gaze to Jesus and in their everyday lives, and that’s literally what my boys learn to do day by day in western Colorado is, Okay, we can either look at the sink full of dishes that we all have to get done, or we can say, What is God doing in the midst of this?
It doesn’t matter if you’re a little boy or a little girl, or a big boy, we kind of need to turn our gaze and shift the way we see things.
Patsy: I love the intro that you did, or the dedication, in Beholding and Becoming, which is to your six sons. Being a mother of two sons and a grandmother of two grandsons, I’m into boys, and also a wife of 59 years, so we’ve got some stuff going on there. And so you name all your sons and you say, “Your becoming is my joy and honor to witness. Fix your eyes on the Savior, boys.” I love that. Is that a mama? “Fix your eyes on the Savior, boys.” I love that. That’s beautiful.
Andrew: Does the art of becoming, or the process of becoming, do we ever get to the end of that?
Ruth: On this side of heaven, I don’t think so. I think that we will be blown away at who God creates us to be when we are with him in his presence face to face forevermore. And when I wrote that inscription to the boys, I think what my journey of motherhood has taught me is I keep thinking there’s this finish line. Oh, my job will be done if everybody could just remember what the rules are, not fight. That there’s some specific way in which everybody could just meet my standards and we could be done, our becoming will be done.
But the reality is we live in the now and the not yet constantly. We are not everything we will be one day, but God is already at work right now. And so how do we love and cherish the art of becoming, which is really just a simple way of saying… The Bible tells us we’re being sanctified, and that’s a big, big word, but we don’t have to be way down by the big word. We can just say we are all becoming, and we are not everything we will one day be. But if we enjoy the process and we kind of see and pay attention to how God’s changing us, then the journey is the thing, right.
Patsy: Your book Beholding and Becoming is just a masterpiece. The beauty of it and the truth within was really visually pleasing and emotionally challenging in the very best way. I could feel your heart and your passion and your sincerity, and I think that’s not always easy to communicate.
And of course, I dip into some of the other medias that you are on, like Instagram, and love hearing you talk there and meet your husband, Troy. I feel like I met him. So that was really sweet to see you in your setting. There’s something about that that’s so personal, isn’t it, that you see someone in their setting, you feel like you know them better.
Andrew: It is, absolutely. Do you ever find that’s a tricky line? Your family is very much an integral part of your public platform in the messages that you speak, in the influence that you have. Where has that balance been for you and your family in how to share, when to share, and what to share?
Ruth: I am convinced that we don’t all have to have the same circumstances to be able to encourage one another in the foundational things about identity and purpose and what God is doing through his story in and through our lives. And so we sometimes think that vulnerability and authenticity means you see exactly what’s in my dirty laundry basket or you know exactly what we argued about the other day, but that’s really not the important thing. That’s a distraction that ends up pointing to me.
I don’t need you to look at me and my life in exactly how I potty train my kids. That’s not the most important thing. The most important thing is to say we all have a hard time with our assignment. All of us struggle with the circumstance we’re in, the way things maybe didn’t turn out the way we expect. And so the mundane and what I write about here, the art of everyday worship, is the idea that the reality is all of us are trying to clear our inbox. Everyone has to deal with dental appointments and bills and somebody spam calling you and a sink full of dishes. Mamas all are stepping on Cheerios and Lego.
We all have those everyday moments, and if we’re waiting for the next brilliant, exciting, extraordinary moment, if we think that’s the moment where we’re going to experience God, we’re going to be waiting a long time to have this a-ha moment when really, I mean, the extraordinary happens every morning for me when I wake up early enough and realize he calls this day into order with the most glorious sunrise. And talk about bridges, right. There’s a bridging to our evening when the sunset happens and you realize, Oh, he’s still here. His presence is still with us.
And no, he is not the sunset, but the sunset declares his majesty because, I say this often, but I had nothing to do with it. You had nothing to do with it, right. I mean, it doesn’t matter how brilliant of an artist you are, you did not create the thing that’s going across the sky right now, and that’s just a humbling moment. And so in our everyday moments, I genuinely think that if we would pay attention, and not just over glorify. It’s not like, Wow, doing dishes is the most glorious, holy, amazing thing in my life. I’m not going to say that. That’s not true. We faithfully do the work that we have to do, but if we can pay attention to see the fact that God’s meeting us there, right in those mundane moments, it actually changes us.
“If we can pay attention to see the fact that God’s meeting us there, right in those mundane moments, it actually changes us.”
Andrew: It seems like that’s what you’re talking about through that message of beholding is that every moment is indeed holy. Though every moment is not the pinnacle of or some euphoric experience, every moment is indeed holy, and that seems to go back to what you’re talking about every moment is part of our process of sanctification. How do you live in that tension of the now and not yet, of being sanctified? Or at least I’ll speak for me — I live in the tension of wanting to be fully sanctified, wanting to live out how I was created and designed to live, but still within the confines of this flesh and bone.
Ruth: I think you have to determine what’s going to inform the story that’s playing in your head and the narrative about what your life is about. You can let that story be determined by social media, by public opinion, or even by the things that you tell yourself first thing in the morning. Or you can go to God’s Word and say, “Here’s the story. This is a love letter of redemption from beginning to end, and even if it’s hard to understand, some of us don’t understand every word of the Bible, but we trust his heart. We keep studying. We keep trying to understand.
But as we approach God’s Word, when we start replacing the narrative that’s going on in our heads that sometimes sound a little bit like, I’ve got to get it right. This is about me. Why am I a failure? Why do I still struggle with this sin? And we replace that with, In Christ, I’ve been given a new identity. He is at work. I’m being transformed. What is the power giving to me through the grace of God?
When we kind of insert the true narrative, we don’t grow so impatient depending on our own strength, because when we get really impatient and frustrated, it’s usually because we think, I should be better than this, and we go in the cycle of guilt and condemnation and fear.
I think the art of beholding is adjusting the way you see things by what’s informing your reality, and that reality, all I’m saying about that ultimately is the reality has to informed by God’s story, not yours.
Andrew: I love that. It’s deep. It’s good truth. We’re going to be back with more truth. I’m here with my wonderful co-host, Patsy Clairmont. We’ll be back on Bridges.
The FAITHFUL Project
Patsy: When women come together to support other women, things happen and lives change. And in the FAITHFUL group, we have an array of women like Amy Grant and Ann Voskamp and Ginny Owens and Kelly Minter, and on and on the names go. Women who are rich in understanding of who God is and are willing to impart it to others. So ladies, let’s make sure that we arm ourself with this faithful information, both in printed form and song.
Andrew: So hear the voices of authors and artists come together to tell the story of God’s faithfulness in and through the women of the Bible on The FAITHFUL Project. Get yours today at faithfulproject.com.
Andrew: Alright, well, we’re back on Bridges, and we are here with our wonderful guest. It’s been such a delight to have you, and Patsy’s fangirling really. I’ll just out her right here. And I’m thrilled to be able to speak with you, just having observed all the beautiful things you’ve put out into the world.
But one of the new beautiful things you’re getting to put out in the world, Ruth Chou Simons, is songs, and that is a part of not only your authorship but getting to co-write some songs for the project FAITHFUL, which includes so many of our close friends. Tell me about one of the songs, or two of the songs. You were part of two songs on this project. Tell me about the co-writing songwriting process.
Ruth: I loved both of the songwriting opportunities I had. One was called “This Time I Will Bring Praise,” and that’s with Leslie Jordan, Trillia Newbell, Kelly Minter, and myself. And then the second song is “Rise Up,” and that’s like the anthem that closes out the album, and that was written with Rachel Myers and Ellie Holcomb.
I remember the afternoon where we gathered, the three of us gathered together, we’re sitting on the floor, and Ellie’s got her guitar out and Rachel and I are Bible girls reading and going, “But look at the nuance here. Look at what’s going on.” And Ellie’s just strumming, she’s strumming a melody line, and Rachel and I are like, “Well, we don’t know how to write songs, but we want this message. We want this to be the case.” We’re like jotting notes.
It was this glorious collaboration where you’re scribbling notes out, you’re thinking about stanzas, you’re thinking about why this has to come before this, and what is that repeating anthem? What is it about this? And for us, it was let’s rise up because it is scary. You don’t why you’re in the circumstance you’re in, but ultimately, God is faithful and you just need to step into what he’s given you to do.
This project is really to showcase and put on display the faithfulness of God throughout history with women in the Bible, that they are seen and known and purposefully used and that God is at the work in and through their lives and even so now. And so when we rise up, it’s not because we’re just like, “Girl power.” That’s not enough. That we’re really saying, “God is at work, and because he is all powerful, I have everything I need to rise up right now and declare his faithfulness.”
Patsy: Beautiful, beautiful.
Andrew: Yeah, I love that. You know, something I’m remembering as I’ve been digging into this FAITHFUL book, which of course is designed primarily for women, but I think it’s important for men to pay attention not only to what women are doing but to what God has done in the lives of women because God teaches me as a man how to see women, how to serve women, and I think also God has that same result in women in how to treat and serve men.
We’re a picture, right. Our complimentary natures is a picture of the full bodiedness of God. But I had a friend recently ask me about leadership of women in church, coming from a very conservative, kind of traditional background in his church experience. And he had read an article that was very well written and articulated but about why women should not be in leadership roles in church, of course utilizing some Scriptures you can imagine, et cetera.
And he just asked me if I would read it and give him my thoughts about it. I said, “Sure.” I read it. I said, “You know, two things.” I said, “One, I would encourage you to also find a voice that is kind of the other perspective, that’s equally articulate, also uses Scripture probably, so you can make your own decision or you can discern for yourself.” But then I said, “I want to ask you, “Who taught you Sunday school when you were growing up? Was it a man, or was it a woman?” He said, “It was women.” I said, “Isn’t it interesting that statistically we believe if people are going to live a life of discipleship with Jesus, that their biggest influence is when they’re children and that we entrust our children almost primarily to the care, their spiritual leadership at those ages is largely women in the church.” I said, “Isn’t that interesting.” And all he went was, “Mmm.”
So what do you say, sitting here with two women who have been leaders in their own right and in the world of the church. I’m sure you’ve been met with resistance before, but even deeper than that, what do you feel about women… And I’m talking about from a political standpoint. Just think of your own experience about women’s role in helping lead the church in the forward movement of the gospel throughout history.
Ruth: Well, as a mama to six boys, I am a primary influence in their lives, and they will learn so much about who God is by the way I demonstrate my purpose before them in Christ. And yes, this is a topic that we choose to really let divide us, maybe even unnecessarily. To me, this is an issue that I can hold loose enough to serve alongside other people who may or may not think exactly the same. Just like you and your friend, there could be very differing opinions on how it plays out in church leadership, how it plays out in a pastoral way. But I think where we can all come together is ultimately to say, first of all, God literally created man and woman to both embody his complete nature. So first of all, women were purposefully created. Secondly, Jesus specifically, specifically, had relationships with women that would be a part of his ministry and his work on Earth and that he had those conversations, specifically tender, meaningful conversations. It was not an afterthought. It was purposely recorded for us.
And so when I think about how women can be a part of impacting the future generations and impacting right in front of us with my six kids as well as my community and others, women need to be trained in the Word of God. We are not just the cookie makers or childcare workers, even though those are two wonderful things and I literally am blessed when somebody makes amazing cookies. My husband probably isn’t a very good cookie maker. I probably do bake better cookies than him. But as women, we should consider gathering together not simply because we’re going to scrapbook and talk a little bit about Jesus but that we should have fortitude in our understanding of God’s Word. We should be everyday theologians who can absolutely articulate who God is, what his purpose is for us, and our identity in him.
And we may differ about exactly how that will play out and who we teach and where we teach and what it is that we’re doing with that and the implications, but we should not be confused about the impact and the influence that women have on all people and that, ultimately, even if as a woman, my primary desire and ministry is to impact women of faith, if that’s my ultimate goal, I desire — and I just had this conversation with my husband the other day. I said, “I really hope you have an opportunity to read some contemporary women authors right now because that will greatly, greatly shape who you are.” Not because that’s the only source, not because we’re saying, “Instead of a wonderful pastoral voice that is an older man,” like that might be one of my favorite authors here, but my goodness, listen to a contemporary woman’s voice because you will be just more whole as a person when you are welcoming various voices in your life.
And certainly, I think that when I have a bigger view of God, I just have a bigger view overall of how ministry can play out in ways that we don’t even… It’s not as formulaic as we think. And I’m excited to see how it is that, at least my six sons, for them to see that their mama has a desire to teach truth to anyone who will listen, but my desire is for them to be balanced and thoughtful young men who respect women and have witnessed the primary woman in their life not shy away from tough topics but to go into the Word of God and not just read fluffy little shallow pieces of literature here and there but to really say, “I’m going to read and study and understand the Word of God so that I know and I stand on what I believe, not on somebody else’s opinions but on good study myself.” And viewing that for them I think gives them a healthy view of women.
“Women need to be trained in the Word of God.”
Patsy: I loved yesterday when we talked with Ginny, and Andrew asked her why she went back — or maybe I did — why she went back to school to seminary. And she said one of the reasons was she wanted to be held accountable to doing the deep study of God’s Word, and I thought that was so rich. And I think that’s what happens within us, that we become rich in ways we could not imagine and that we’ll be seen in the way we communicate to others and also in the safeguard it becomes for our own heart and for our mind. There are so many mental health issues today, and the most stabilizing thing I think we can do, like you’ve already said, is to be centered in his Word.
The FAITHFUL Project
Patsy: Andrew, what I have loved through the years of my life is that God has sent women to me in just the right moments to help me bridge a lot of my misunderstanding about what it means to be a woman of God, what it means to be a woman for heaven’s sake. Girlfriends help each other in those ways in personal issues. My husband was so grateful — “Oh my goodness, go talk to your girlfriends about that. I don’t know anything about it.” There’s just some things that women need other women to speak life into them about.
So I’m thrilled that this group called FAITHFUL has been brought together because it’s full of such quality ladies talking about women in Scripture in ways that are meaningful, that are going to bring hope to other gals who are out there questioning.
And when I say quality women, we’re talking about gals like Amy Grant, who you and I both adore her. She is just so lovely at the very core of her being and so peace-giving and gracious. I love Amy Grant, and she kind of embraces all these women in this circle of faithfulness. I like that a lot.
Lisa Harper is in there. I’ve known Lisa for 30 years, and she is a bundle of energy and insight. She’s smart, she’s witty, and she’s wild, honey. She’s got more energy than anyone I know.
We’re just barely scratching the surface of what’s happening. I think FAITHFUL has all the potential for legacy because they’ve got a book, they’ve got music, they’ve got gathering. I mean, hello. We’re talking about a full circle waiting to happen for the good of gals. I like that.
Andrew: I love the creative side of it, what you’ve mentioned already — names of authors and musicians — and the multigenerational relationship that is represented in this book, which of course we love here on Bridges.
Some of my generation, some of the names I love seeing in there are people like Sandra McCracken, who’s an amazing singer-songwriter, podcaster, author herself. Ellie Holcomb, an amazing songwriter and just communicator. Her expressions of faith are so poignant. I think of our good friend Ginny Owens. Everyone loves Ginny. She’s like an Amy, right? Can’t get enough of her. So I love that there’s that multigenerational aspect as these women…
The creative side of it I wanted to mention was that there are authors who are co-writing songs — you know a little bit about that — and then there’s songwriters who are authoring chapters, again, all about the integral role of women in the Bible.
I see this as an empowering thing. That word sometimes can have a lot of layers to it, but what I feel is empowering about this book, for women or for anyone who happens to trace the words on these pages, is that it is showing how God sees women and how he has continually through time, beginning in the beginning of time through the pages of Scripture, and I think is an indicator of how God is still using women today to tell his story through the ages. I think that’s faithful.
Patsy: It is, it is. And the book is lovely. It’s hardcover, it’s well designed, and it’s full of photographs. I love to go through people’s mail, and photographs is one of the ways we can do that. We can see what’s going on, what their outfit looks like, who they’re talking to, imagine what they’re saying one to another. I can tell you this much: There’s a lot of cheerleading going on from one heart to another.
Andrew: And isn’t that important not just among women with women but today to see people who are across generational lines, who have different life experiences, different influences coming together around the same purpose. And of course, that’s what I believe the Spirit of God is about. It’s about unity, and these women are representing that on these pages. And you can find your copy of The FAITHFUL Project book format, music format, whatever you want, at faithfulproject.com.
Patsy: We’re back with Bridges and with our wonderful guest, Ruth Chou Simons. Here’s what I love: There’s so many ways a person can go with a name. My name is Patsy. I am often called Klutzy. I’m called Pasty. I’m called a little bit of everything. But here’s what I love: that I’m called at all. And we’re called to enjoy what God has given us, and I see part of nature on your hand, and I’d like you to tell me about your beautiful ring and the gift that it is to you.
Ruth: I love turquoise. I see it as a neutral. It’s bright blue, but it’s a neutral. I never expected to spend so much of my life in New Mexico, namely Albuquerque, New Mexico, but two decades was my most recent stint, and before that, I grew up there. And so I get to wear turquoise jewelry, and namely this particular piece was from an artisan who reached out to me and was grateful for my work and wanted to bless me from a company called Mud Lowery.
It’s a gift to be able to wear work that reminds you of God’s story in your life, and so for me, I never expected to spend two decades building ministries working in New Mexico. But now that I live in Colorado, which is also highly influenced by Native American artwork, but for me it’s an opportunity to remember God’s faithfulness throughout different parts of my story and collect that over time so that on my physical body, throughout wherever I go, I’m carrying bits and pieces of that story so that there’s just remembrance of how he’s shown his work in my life.
Patsy: It’s a beautiful way to do it. You’re familiar with the Mexico area and Albuquerque.
Andrew: New Mexico, I love New Mexico, yeah, when you talk about that and see the turquoise. In fact, my mom would wear turquoise, and I’ve always seen that because my mom is a very independent, strong woman. She’s amazing, really sweet, wonderful mother, but I always assign turquoise to kind of this independent, strong woman, and so I love seeing that.
But I didn’t realize why I was so connected to New Mexico. I’d hiked a lot in New Mexico, I still hike a lot in New Mexico, spend time there, but when I graduated high school, my parents gave me a card with a little check in there for a gift or something. And my mom said, “Little did we know when we went to that marriage enrichment retreat in New Mexico…” There you go. I am the product of New Mexico.
Ruth: I’m telling you, people think the desert, like there’s nothing going on. No, it is beautiful. There’s a reason why Georgia O’Keefe parked it out there. There are a lot of people who get away to the desert because you have to cultivate — we keep talking about this — but you cultivate a way to see the beauty in what is not naturally really fertile. I mean, it’s the desert. You think nothing’s growing there, but if you look hard enough, you actually realize there are so many colors; it’s not all brown. There is so much life; it’s not all dry. And so I spent specifically the last two decades raising my family there, and I love the desert. I love New Mexico.
Patsy: I spent five winters in Palm Desert, and I remember one of those, as we flew in… Well, the first time we flew in, I kept saying, “But where’s the grass?” I couldn’t believe how much beige was in the landscape. But one season we flew in, there had been unusual rains, and the rains had brought forth beautiful things out of that beige that you had no idea the seeds of that beauty were in that soil. It was just amazing. The yellows and purples and reds, oh my.
Ruth: It’s incredible. In Albuquerque, the mountains there are called the Sandias, and that’s Spanish for watermelon because in the desert when the sun sets, the color that is reflected off of those mountains, it ends up making them pink, magenta. If you’ve ever seen those mountains, you can drive along and get to soccer practice and miss it altogether, or you can look up and see it.
Those two decades in New Mexico weren’t the… I mean, I was a young mom, nursing or pregnant every other year of my life for 10 years. We started a school. We started a church. I had six boys all within the same decade. Those were not easy years. But those were the years where I learned to see, and I think learning to see and gaze differently and learning to behold actually changes your perspective on everything. So now, to me, those weren’t dry, wasted, wandering years. Those were very purposeful years where I see where God met me in the desert.
Patsy: I took an art class, and when I was struggling, the drawing teacher that had come in said to me, “Patsy, it is not that you cannot draw. It is that you cannot see.”
Ruth: Oh, that is so true.
Patsy: And so she had me take my attempt at a picture of a tree and go out and put it next to the tree. She said, “Now, sit there with that tree for a while and see if you can begin to see it as it is.”
Ruth: So I won’t nerd out on the art thing, but I’m going to say this real quick. So one of my very first drawing lessons was an exercise where you just can’t take your eye off of the object that you’re drawing. Don’t look at your paper. Don’t look at the… Because let’s say, let’s just keep this real simple, if you’re looking at a mug and you’re trying to draw a mug, well, you’re translation of that, if you look down on the paper, you’re going to try to draw what you think a mug is supposed to be. But you train your eyes to see, so when you are learning to draw, you focus on that object and you do not translate and say whether that makes sense or not. You just go and make the slight adjustments according to where that line goes when you observe it. It’s just a trick in drawing where you realize you stop interpreting what you think it should look like and you just learn to see it and translate it with your pencil. You let your hand follow your eyes.
Andrew: I mean, there’s a spiritualness there, right. I think of God and me and my relationship with him. I’m trying to always live up to how I perceive that he is perceiving me. It’s this weird, ambiguous fog, when really the clarity is in his message about me, which we find throughout Scripture, throughout the messaging of your books.
I want to ask you about beauty because you infuse all of your product and all of your books, all of everything you do has so much beauty in it, and it reminds me of this song that Sara Groves wrote. Are you familiar with Sara Groves?
Ruth: Yes
Andrew: Okay. Wonderful artist, and it’s called “Why It Matters.” I just want to read a little bit of this lyric and then have your response to that.
Sara writes in the song:
Sit with me and tell me once again
Of the story that's been told us
Of the power that will hold us
Of the beauty and why it matters
Speak to me until I understand
Why our thinking and creating
Why our efforts of narrating
About the beauty and why it matters
Like the statue in the park
Of this war torn town
And it's protest of the darkness
And the chaos all around
With its beauty, how it matters
So does beauty matter?
Ruth: So good. It absolutely matters. What comes to my mind is that we were made for awe and wonder, and we keep trying to satisfy that innate need to be in awe and to have wonder in our lives. We keep trying to satisfy that with our cell phones, with all the things that we can create and make, and we’re so impressed with ourselves. And I know I said this a little bit earlier before the break, but I think we look for miracles when really it’s crazy miraculous that you get to see the stars at night. If you go out in the country a little bit and you look up, you realize there’s so much wonder, and we just are so impressed with ourselves that we miss it so much.
And so beauty, God could have created this whole world… We could’ve lacked the ability to smell what truffle fries are really all about. We could’ve lacked the ability to actually smell a peony. We could’ve lacked the ability to see, like Georgia O’Keefe points out, the nuances at the center of a poppy. That’s crazy, and you could miss the whole thing because poppies bloom and they die within like three days. And if you’re walking real fast, you could miss those oriental poppies in bloom and miss the whole thing. But when you stop and notice, you realize we were created to have a visceral reaction to beauty. Nobody taught you to do that. You hear beautiful music, and you’re going, What in the world? That is so beautiful. What is it that causes tears to well up in our eyes when you hear beautiful music?
Why is it that we stand at the ocean’s edge? You go to the beach — neither of us live near the beach — but when you stand at the ocean’s edge and you are overcome with the wave after wave. And then better yet, let’s say the storm passes and the sun’s setting, you can’t pull yourself away. I don’t care if something comes on TV, you are like, I’m here. Why is that? And I think it’s because we were created to really want to experience that beauty and we were made for that. We were made to have that in God. But something’s broken in us that needs to be restored, and until that’s fully restored, we're getting glimpses of that. We’re getting glimpses of what that beauty is.
I keep realizing day by day that… I was even thinking about the quote from C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity just this morning, like “if I find that I long for something that this earth cannot satisfy, the only logical explanation is that I was made for another place.” And he was talking about heaven, right. And so we can look at our cell phones all day long, but it sucks you dry. Even if you’re fascinated by the technology or what you can access through it, it’ll never satisfy.
Andrew: You talk about diminishing fear and anxiety through the effort of gazing, of beholding, of being in the moment. I think about that Matthew 6 Scripture where he’s literally clothed the lilies of the fields and takes care of the sparrows, so what do I have to fear. There’s a securing element of lifting our eyes. Maybe that’s why beauty is not superfluous because beauty actually is the pointer, it is the indicator that we are safe, that we are well, that we are taken care of in the big, big, big picture.
“There’s a securing element of lifting our eyes.”
Patsy: And it tells us that the heavens declare the glory of God. Every day the heavens are declaring who he is, so when we’re digging in the soil and we come across a seed that’s starting to sprout up, we’re seeing the miracle that can be contained in the smallest of things in the hardest of places, and that’s so hope-giving. We’re big on beauty, aren’t we?
And about the waters. I love the verse, it’s in the Old Testament — it’s not Ecclesiastes; it might be Isaiah – where it says, “The voice of the Lord is upon the waters.” And I thought, That’s why we rush to the water’s edge. We think it’s for a suntan. The voice of the Lord is upon the waters. It woos us. Wherever he’s being proclaimed, there is a draw to the human heart.
“Wherever he’s being proclaimed, there is a draw to the human heart.”
Andrew: So tell me this. We were just talking with our good friend Ginny Owens, who’s also a part of this FAITHFUL project that you’re a part of, and she’s in the middle of Manhattan in a 400-square-foot. So if I’m stuck in the middle of concrete, how can I practice this that we’re talking about? How can I practice this beholding?
Ruth: I’ve thought a lot about that because the reality is we get called to different places on this earth, and sometimes there’s so much traffic noise that you can’t hear and there’s so much city light that you might not see the stars. But I do think that the reality is every single one of us has access to the day’s beginning, and that beginning, when you wake up and you have breath…
Sometimes we roll out of bed and we’re just like already late, and that’s not a great way to wake up. But I think if we can occasionally even, even if you’re not a morning person, occasionally wake up to meet the sun, you realize it doesn’t matter where you live. Everybody has access to a sunrise. Everybody has access to that. Everyone has access to walking outside at some point, even if you’re in the middle of Manhattan, and listen for a bird chirping over the noise. Even if you’re not in the middle of western Colorado mountains like I am, there is something alive and totally taken care of by God that you probably don’t even realize is being sustained by God.
Or I think about how maybe you’re in downtown Detroit and you need to go find a park. Maybe you just need to go find a park and realize that even tulips that are planted, so they’re not like natural wildflowers, but even tulips that are planted, that’s a miracle that you sprinkle water on it and that this dry bulb turns into a plant that shoots up and surprises with what color, what shape, what fragrance. That’s a miracle in itself.
And I just think that even down to I have houseplants in my house, in part because tending and caring for houseplants is like an everyday ritual that kind of puts me in my place. I mean, it’s kind of this wild thing for me. Like when I go and tend to a houseplant and prune some little pieces off and water it week by week, I see little things growing on it that I’m going, Wait, where did you come from? How did this happen?
And so maybe for anyone who’s listening that feels like they’re living in a concrete jungle, I would just say start by nurturing a little plant and discover how much you get to be a part of something that’s kind of a miracle. Like you didn’t control how that thing’s gonna grow. You probably have no idea how it’s possible that a fern unfurls its leaves in the weirdest way. You did not have anything to do with that, and you get to be a part of that miracle just by simply watering it. I mean, I just think miracles are everywhere.
Andrew: I heard the other day someone say — this’ll really take us for an about face — but they said that plants are the new pets and pets are the new children.
Ruth: Oh, that is so funny. Oh my goodness.
Andrew: I don’t know what it means.
Patsy: In your book Beholding, you say, “We’re convinced that we’re in charge that we ultimately worship our busy lives.” And then you give some questions that I thought were great, so I thought the three of us should have to respond to the questions.
What do you spend the most money on?
You know, when I thought of that, my priorities have changed because my lifestyle has changed as I’ve aged, and so now it’s mostly I spend my money on food and more food and art supplies. Those would be the two areas.
How about you, Andrew?
Andrew: Me next, huh? The place I spend the most money would be on my career, which definitely identifies some priorities there.
Ruth: I think I could identify some priorities with my creature comforts. Maybe food in terms of just wanting to take a break and revel in having a night out, or in clothes, or in things that make me feel like, Oh, I can feel good right now in the moment.
And so yeah, I think when I penned those questions, I really think self-assessment is hard. It’s really, really hard, but it kind of helps you see where your attention is going.
Andrew: Absolutely. One of my friends said this recently, which is exactly what you’re saying, Ruth, is that if we are called to deny ourselves, how can we truly deny ourselves if we are not aware of ourselves? So in the Christian culture where lots of times there’s this caution around something like therapy or understanding my psyche and my reasons for doing things, my motivations, we shy away from that because we think it’s self-obsession. But how can I deny myself, which is part of the sanctification process, if I’m not aware of myself?
What else you got there, Patsy?
Patsy: Okay. What do you get the most upset about?
Ruth: I’m a little nervous about these questions. I’m like, What’s coming up next? I forgot.
Andrew: Go ahead, Patsy.
Patsy: What do you get the most upset about?
I think the news. I think it can be the most upsetting. That’s why I often have to avoid some of it. I don’t want to be uninformed, but I also don’t want to sit because if I sit in it, I sour. My ability to think through to the council of what God is doing over and beyond the horrific things that people do… We are capable of anything and everything. We’ve proven that. But when it happens on the scene and we have to live with the reality, that’s really tough. It’s hard enough to know it and live with it, much less to sit in it, and the sensationalism of the news frustrates me.
What about you?
Andrew: I think I would piggyback on that. Drama is something that makes me very… I’m not prone to anger, but my frustrations definitely circle around drama. So if someone’s experiencing something to the nth degree or creating something out of it that’s not steeped in reality, I really love to be grounded in reality. But sometimes that can also minimize the significance of something.
Ruth: I think it’s interesting how… My Sunday school answer wants to be that I am most upset about my sin, but that is not true. That is not true. Half the time, I don’t even realize it. And you know, it’s interesting. When I think about that question, I think what’s observable and what I think is going on in my heart. The very observable, if you ask my kids, she gets most upset on the Saturday when the rooms are not clean and we have to spend a lot of time doing things that I already told you to do. So basically, to sum up, I get the most upset when people aren’t up to my standard. That is a very, very classic Ruth-ism. Like my standard’s this high, you didn’t meet my expectations. Now I’m going to be really upset and find a way to make you feel that you’ve disappointed me.
Okay, that’s very honest, and I just said that right here.
Patsy: That is very honest.
Andrew: And helpful.
Patsy: And very convicting.
Ruth: Well, and on the other side of it is that if I value whether that standard’s met, then I also get very upset, though not observable, I get really upset if I’m misunderstood. So that happens on social media, that happens when there’s a lot of drama like you all just talked about. It’s a very stressful place if your identity isn’t locked in. If you don’t know that the standard is Christ and not yourself, then you can constantly be in this warring of what did other people think of me versus what do I think of myself versus whether somebody else is disappointing me. And so the most anxious and the most upset I ever get, I can always trace it back to some version of me thinking that I need to make sure other people make me happy, and that’s just very revealing.
Patsy: A lot of pressure on them, isn’t it?
Andrew: Well, I want to comment on that. You speak to a lot of women, both of you speak to a lot of women in your platforms and in your messaging, standards. When I hear the word standards, I think of just from an observation, since I am not a woman, I think of as I observe women living in their lives, the women in my vicinity, they are setting a lot of standards for themselves. Why do you think that is, and how do women… Men set standards too. I mean, we’re all doing that. But I feel like women set really high standards, sometimes unattainable. What is that drive for that? Is that culture that’s expecting that, or is that just in a woman’s DNA? What is that?
Ruth: Well, since I probably won’t be back before my next book releases, I’m going to tell you I actually spent a year talking about this topic. I have a book coming out called When Strivings Cease. Well, every woman would like to see strivings cease and stop the cycle of self-improvement. And how does that happen? Because why is it that we have more opportunities than ever before but we’re exhausted? And if you ask any woman, she probably doesn’t want to say it out loud, but she asks the question, Am I really enough? Am I really doing enough? Have I missed my opportunities?
And I think there’s innate, deep need for worth and belonging and having favor. I think most women struggle, probably a little bit more than men, with desiring other people’s approval and favor, and that translates to our walk with God. We might think that we have to earn favor. We might think that we have to achieve, at some level, even spiritually, to have favor with God. And so grace is a hard concept to accept if you are constantly in the achievement, self-improvement cycle.
And we’re kind of addicted to that. I mean, talk about what’s happened between your generations is ultimately this obsession with self-improvement and self-help. We’re kind of obsessed with being the best version of ourselves, and it feels attainable and never attainable. And so that cycle keeps us running on the hamster wheel of, If I just put in five more hours, I will achieve all my goals. If I just do this. If I just lose this weight. If I just. If I just. And that constant pressure is what makes us all either strive and strive and strive and work harder or give up altogether, and both are deflating.
Patsy: When you say the word grace, it reminds me that your first book, GraceLaced, was received with such enthusiasm. It was a surprising appeal, not that your work, when you see it, there’s nothing that would say anything but quality, but the surprise was that a gift book, because it is part gift, but the deeper gift is the truth you put within your words.
Ruth: Patsy, you know my heart so much. Could you be my PR, because that literally is everything I want somebody to say and know about my heart, that yes, it’s beautiful, and yes, it’s quality, but I really want the truth to be what leads.
Patsy: And it is. It does lead from the very first word through, and I love that. I love the depth and the richness. And you start it off with a quote from Spurgeon, whom I love his Morning and Evening devotional. It’s been a favorite forever with his rich choice of language. His word selections just thrill me.
Here’s the quote: “Nearness to God brings likeness to God. The more you see God the more God will be seen in you.”
I think you for helping us to think through beholding and beautiful, and I think you for being a faithful woman, that you’ve stepped into a crowd of witnesses, so to speak, and that you are working together to rise up. So thank you for all you’re doing and who you are. We’ve loved having you as a guest, and I am proof that at any age you can be a fangirl.
Ruth: Thank you all so much for having me. It’s been such an honor.
Andrew: Thank you, Ruth.
Patsy: Bridges is co-produced by Andrew Greer and myself, Patsy Clairmont.
Andrew: And our podcast is recorded and mixed by Jesse Phillips at the Arcade in Franklin, Tennessee.
Patsy: Remember, don’t forget to leave us a rating, a review, or a comment. It all helps our little show get going.
Andrew: To find out more about my co-host Patsy Clairmont or myself, Andrew Greer, or to read transcripts of our show, simply go to bridgesshow.com.