Episode 32: Leigh Cappillino: Fear Not! Permission to Lower Expectations For The Holiday
Transcript
Patsy: Hi, I’m Patsy Clairmont, and I’m a Boomer.
Andrew: And I’m Andrew Greer, and I’m a Millennial.
Patsy: And you are listening to Bridges.
Andrew: Spiritual Connections Through Generational Conversations
Patsy: Season Two is brought to you by Food for the Hungry.
Andrew: Meeting the physical and spiritual needs of people all around the world for over 50 years.
Patsy: They keep ringing the bells of provision. God bless them for what they do.
Andrew: I like that. Ringing the bells of… I wish someone would ring the bell of provision in my life.
Patsy: Well, I think someone has. I think his name is Jesus, and I think we get to talk specifically about him through the words and the sweet spirit of our friend…
Andrew: Leigh Cappillino. Of course, she is one-third of the legendary group Point of Grace. She is not only a phenomenal singer though and not only an incredible part of an incredible trio; she is a wonderful friend to us personally, to our families, to my parents, to your kiddos, and really, the warmth of hospitality is just all over her.
Patsy: She is a bubbler. She bubbles joy everywhere she goes. She has a large heart, so she’s quite inclusive, and she spreads great cheer. So she’s a perfect representative for the holidays.
Andrew: She is indeed. And we think of the holidays as a cheerful time, and indeed, it is. But sometimes it takes a little preparation mentally and emotionally to be able to really rest in that cheer or to give over to the cheer because there’s a lot of dynamics when it comes to family and calendars and Christmas.
Patsy: You got that right.
Andrew: So if you’ve got a lot of dynamic in your family, Leigh is going to be a breath of fresh air of maybe how to sort through some of those feelings and have, potentially, one of the happiest Christmases of your life.
Patsy: We’ve had a lot of different kind of bridges through the weeks on our show.
Andrew: It’s true.
Patsy: This is one of my favorites. It’s at Christmas Island, which of course is so suited to our holiday.
Andrew: It is. I mean, to some people, that’s what they would consider, at best, purgatory.
Patsy: Christmas Island?
Andrew: Well, you know, some people don’t love the whole joy… We’re going to get into that. You keep talking about Christmas.
Patsy: Some people don’t love what happens to them relationally and emotionally through the holidays, so they will love this bridge. And it is the Crab Bridge that they migrate… Actual real crabs are migrating, and as they do, they were crossing the highway and they were being slaughtered. So the people built them their own bridge, and they go up over the highway and down the other side to safety. Amazing.
Andrew: Can you imagine? I know it is amazing. And to think, for all of you who might be having a crabby Christmas…
Patsy: That’s right.
Andrew: There is hope. And one of the most hopeful people I’ve ever experienced in my life is who we have with us today.
Patsy: Who is not crabby.
Andrew: She is not crabby. Though her last name is Cappillino, and at times, there probably has been a crabby Cappillino Christmas, which we’ll talk about. So we want to welcome our good friend from Point of Grace: Ms. Leigh Cappillino.
Leigh: Hello, hello.
Patsy: Yay.
Andrew: Can you identify with the crabby Christmas?
Leigh: I can identify with crabby Christmas, crabby Thanksgiving, crabby Valentine’s, yeah.
Andrew: Whatever gets your goat, right?
Leigh: Yeah, yeah. Name it.
Andrew: Well, I was thinking about how, okay, so you’re from the Carolinas, so you’re a true southern girl.
Leigh: Yes, this is real.
Andrew: This is real.
Leigh: I really talk like this.
Andrew: And then your husband is from…
Patsy: New York
Leigh: New York. He’s a Yankee, and he doesn’t talk like this.
Andrew: There’s got to be, and I’ve met your mother-in-law.
Leigh: Yes, and it only takes one time.
Andrew: Tina. I love Tina.
Leigh: She’s at the house now.
Andrew: Is she?
Leigh: Yeah.
Andrew: Love ya, Tina. So tell me about this. I mean, that is a whole different… I’m a southerner, grew up a southerner. Patsy, you’re a what?
Patsy: I’m a northern southerner. I’m real confused. I was born in the north to southern parents, and I’ve been trying to figure out where I belong.
Andrew: We’re glad to have you in Tennessee.
Leigh: Yes, we are.
Patsy: I love Tennessee. You know what I found out? I found out that most of my people are from Tennessee. I didn’t even know it.
Leigh: And Kentucky too.
Patsy: Kentucky was where I thought they were all from. Now I’m finding out they were diversified.
Andrew: Diversified is true, as all our families are, and at Christmastime, that can make for some potential…
Patsy: Tension
Leigh: [sigh]
Andrew: Tension. That’s Leigh sighing, the only sigh of relief she’ll get from now until December 31.
Leigh: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Welcome to the studio. But we want to talk about how you can kind of not preempt but maybe pre-think through your Christmas.
Leigh: Okay.
Patsy: Well, let’s also include Thanksgiving in that. I know we’re all ready for Christmas, but this’ll prepare us for next Thanksgiving.
Andrew: Okay, okay. So what are some things? Do you have any kind of coping mechanisms? And I always hate to say coping because that sounds like surviving. We want to not just survive the holidays; we want to actually be able to enjoy and embrace the holidays. With all the differences and a growing family, and now you’ve got a teenage daughter and you’ve got a younger son…
Leigh: So over the last few years, we’ve had what I consider a nice way of escape because when we had one, we were a lot more nomadic. And now that we have two… Because we don’t live in South Carolina; we live in Nashville, and Dana’s family lives in New York. To pack up two kids and all that, it’s a lot more difficult.
As of a few years ago, we just kind of put our stake in the ground and said, “It’s okay to say, ‘No, we can’t come up for Christmas,’ but what we can do is the month of January is a lot more lean, so what works for us is real quality time around the new year.” And so for us, we just had to do that. Otherwise, crabby is another… I mean, let’s go on deeper down and find another word. You know what I mean? It’s good for us to teach our kids boundaries, especially family boundaries.
I just remember Jan Silvious years and years ago saying just don’t feel so obligated around the holiday season to push yourself to such a limit that you’re no good to anybody. So for us, we have, whether it’s Christmas or Thanksgiving, we’ve just learned that a little bit of time that has quality wrapped around it is a lot more beneficial to our family than just showing up because it’s the holidays.
Patsy: Well, I love the idea of putting a stake in the ground and learning how to establish new boundaries. How does one actually put a new boundary into place?
Leigh: Well, for me, it was just a matter of having joy or not having joy. My husband is so sweet. He’s like a chameleon. He’ll change colors in whatever lily pad he’s on. For him, he just goes with the flow. My maintenance is so difficult, and in order to take care of my maintenance, I just had to really be honest with him and say, “If it’s okay, can we…”
And this to the side: Dana was very sweet and gentle in saying something powerful to me a few years ago. He said to me, “It’s okay to be okay with staying at home. It’s okay to be okay staying at home.”
So for me, over the last few years, this is our busy time with Point of Grace, we are traveling nonstop, and I even had to make the phone call just the other day to my parents. Something came up with Point of Grace, and now we’re gonna be busy until the 23rd of December, which meant I had to cancel Christmas in South Carolina. And I had to share with my parents, “I’m sorry, but we’re gonna be leaving on the 23rd instead of the 27th.” And I saw the countenance. They were sad, but at the same time, they understood.
But if we could just get to a place of understanding where people are individually, I think our holiday season would just be so much better.
Patsy: I think that we personalize so much that we don’t need to, that if we could just look from the perspective of the other person and see they’re not doing it to hurt us or disappoint us, but there are other things they have to consider, and be able then to flex with that in our own spirits and recreate for ourselves something that will be joyous and celebratory.
“We personalize so much that we don’t need to.”
Leigh: Right, right.
Andrew: And the development of understanding that you’re talking about could go way outside of the holidays. If we learn to understand within the kind of pressure and all the things that come with the holidays, all the kind of baggage that can come with it, if we learn understanding for others in that, it can only translate to January, February, March, April, May.
I think about my family. We all have families like this in all different parts of the country. I’m a single guy, so I can be kind of considered the easy one to find his way wherever. Like, Oh, well, he can drop whatever. Well, okay, but I have families here, such as the Clairmonts and the Cappillinos, that that sure sounds like a lot of fun to sleep in my own bed and to be with my family in Nashville.
So we’ve learned a lot. And I attribute my parents and I really like hearing what you and Dana are…because you’re teaching your kids something too through, like you said, your boundaries. So we never went to a grandparent’s on Christmas Day. We would go after Christmas to different places, but my parents so prized that ability to stay in your PJs and eat breakfast together and take naps and watch movies, and we didn’t even leave the house on Christmas Day. We didn’t get dressed or shower. I mean, it was a hot mess, and it was so great that now they were also I think training themselves, my parents, I think. I don’t want to speak for them.
My middle brother, his wife, were in California for years and had little kids, and he’s a minister, so Christmas Eve, and then she has a successful business. Guess what. We didn’t see them at Christmas. They, in January, found all of us or we found them. My other brother: three kids, very involved in their church and their community. Well, they don’t want to necessarily uproot from that, especially with their kids. And my parents have the lens to be like, Oh yeah, that’s what they should do.
And so I think even you and Dana are preparing with those boundaries, I would guess, so that when your kids are grown and have their own kids and doing their own thing maybe on Christmas Day, it’s not going to spoil your Christmas Day. I don’t think.
Leigh: I agree. I even would say that it’s taken time for our families to be okay with it, not just us. And we have to be careful what kind of guilt we place on our families to feel so obligated.
We like the word “savor” right now in our family. Just yesterday, we got home from a five-leg tour, and Andy just wanted me to sit with him and play grocery store. I’m like, first of all, I’m not young as… And so getting on the floor, it just hurts, okay. It just hurts a little bit. But we savored playing grocery store, and it just felt good. It just felt really, really good. And Christmastime is busy enough as it is, and if we can just… And I’m telling you, through the lens of my 5-year-old, 30 minutes can feel like six weeks when it is just engaged.
Patsy: Good counsel, good counsel. Do you have some specific traditions that you put in place, and are your children wild about them?
Leigh: So White Christmas is always being played when we’re decorating our Christmas tree. Now Andy will dance with us a little bit on the dancing scene because Danny Kaye is amazing. So that’s a fun… Music is the heartbeat of our home, so music is always going. It’s such a beautiful movie in general. That’s one of our little traditions.
Our second tradition is Christmas morning we’re in our flannels, our pajamas, and we have a big brunch feast. Even though it’s the four of us, we act like there’s 752 people coming, and it’s fun. It’s not gluttony, so I don’t need any hatemail, but it’s just this opportunity to recognize that this is a day of celebration. It’s not celebrating over filling our bellies to where we’re miserable. It’s taking time to celebrate the moment in time where, as a family, we are so blessed to be a Christian home.
And what does that look like? It looks like being around a table, and laughing together, and feasting together, and reading the beautiful story of Jesus and him being born in a manger.
And I’ll tell you what has been a new little tradition in our home with Andy. You gave me that awesome book about five years ago where it’s the popups and it’s the whole alphabet. This one was the whole Christmas alphabet. You know, A is for angel. And Andy, we start reading that… I mean, we’re already reading, we’re already doing it, but it helped him learn his ABCs. Bedtime is a Christmas tradition for us where we read that book, we do those popups.
As far as this real, shall I say, holy moment, there’s not necessarily just this holy moment where we come together and get on our knees and pray. I would love to, as a Christian singer, be able to tell you we do that, but that’s not necessarily something we do. At the end of the new year, we’ll come together, and we’ll write down all of the goodness in our lives and we’ll write down the goals that we have for the next year, and then we’ll read the year before. So that’s kind of a holiday tradition that we do.
But really for us, we’re so relieved to just finally be together after a very busy musical season that those few things are really enough, for lack of a better word, that we call that a pretty satisfactory list of traditions.
Andrew: You know, in my mind, I think gratitude is often the gateway to God anyway, so gratitude is not necessarily something that’s abundant in our culture and society today. It’s not always on our lips, and so to take time, I’d say that’s a pretty holy moment to take time to be grateful.
You’re listening to Bridges with…
Patsy: Patsy Clairmont, the Boomer.
Andrew: I’m Andrew Greer, the Millennial. We’ll be right back.
“Gratitude is often the gateway to God.”
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Patsy: “Shout out praises to the Lord, all the earth. Worship the Lord with joy. Enter his presence with joyful singing. Acknowledge that the Lord is God. He made us and we belong to him; we are his people and the sheep of his pasture.”
That’s Psalms 100, verses 1 and 2, from my own Abide Bible.
When we abide him and his words abide in us, everything changes — our perspective, our attitude. So it anchors my soul when I go to the Word of God. It teaches me better behavior than I’d have otherwise because I can really suffer from a case of the attitude. So this helps to keep me in a better place with a sweeter attitude in a difficult world.
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Patsy: Andrew, I understand, word is out, that you do another podcast with a friend of ours. Tell us about that.
Andrew: Mr. Mark Lowry, who was a guest on this podcast. He’s my co-host for Dinner Conversations with Mark Lowry and Andrew Greer. We have a ton of fun talking about all kinds of topics around the table, and you can find them at dinner-conversations.com.
Do you know something that we both love a lot of, Patsy?
Patsy: What’s that?
Andrew: That’s books.
Patsy: Food
Andrew: That too. But I hear you have a book club.
Patsy: I do have a book club. It’s called Porch Pals Book Club, and you can find out more about the book club by going to patsyclairmont.com.
Point of Grace singing “Joy to the World”
Joy, joy
Joy, joy
Joy to the world! the Lord is come
Let earth receive her King
Let every heart prepare Him room
And heaven and nature sing
Heaven and nature sing
Heaven and heaven and nature sing
Andrew: One of my favorite songs off your Christmas record, off the Point of Grace Christmas record, is called “Fear Not.” And of course, it’s from the perspective, at first, of the angel speaking to Mary and then speaking to Joseph and all that. But when I think about your celebration that you say you have around the table, even just this big brunch feast, and a day to celebrate and, yeah, we don’t get on our knees and pray before every single bite or whatever, but I’m thinking even the celebration of Christmas as a Christian, as someone who believes in Jesus and has received the Holy Spirit, that that is an element of staving off fear. Just to come together as your family and celebrate what is true, as a way of saying, “Do not be afraid.” Does that resonate?
Leigh: Well, because there’s strength in numbers and if you’re surrounded by family, then you know you’re not alone, and so that would hopefully soften some of that fear that’s before us.
We’re a very talkative family. I’ll probably talk more than I should, but I was very intentional from the get-go as a mom that I just wanted to have a relationship with my children that was free to communicate. Just even the other day, my sweet daughter just going through a difficult time and just for her to be able to communicate with me in a way that, I mean, I just was so grateful. I was so grateful. But our kids are afraid because as adults we’re afraid.
I know there’s been a study that “fear not” is represented 366 times in the Word. I mean, he didn’t even forget leap year. There’s a Scripture every day to remind us not to fear. But in our humanity, what’s real is real. To know something is one thing, but to believe and walk in faith is another.
I’ve just got family that’s afraid of getting out of bed. I’ve got family that’s afraid of going back to the oncologist for that annual reading. So for that, we’re just in a place in our life, when you said gratitude, I know it sounds like it’s an overused word, but if you could unzip me and look at my heart, you would see it’s full of gratitude because there’s just not one day anymore in my life that I’m not thankful for where I am, where I’ve been, and just his protection around all that. I don’t deserve it, but he’s been so sweet to bless us, and I don’t know why other than just his grace and his mercy.
“Our kids are afraid because as adults we’re afraid.”
Patsy: We started talking about the crabby bridge, and I think oftentimes crabbiness comes out of fear that our inability to know what to do with it ends up making us quite contentious. And I think when people get on the edge of their nerves and want to blame it on other people, on their relatives, that when we back up and take responsibility for what’s happening in our own heart and out our own lips, it’s at times like this I’m reminded of Proverbs 15:1 that says, “A soft answer will turn away wrath, but grievous words will stir up anger.”
So if we don’t get into the pattern of allowing our crabbiness to end up being our conversation, if we can cut that off at the pass and go to gratitude, gratitude will help to turn that away. And we can express it through a soft reply to another crabby person, it will turn their wrath away from us and our wrath away from them. It’s a double blessing when we put that into purpose.
Leigh: I agree. I totally agree.
Andrew: So we’re going to get crabby at times. There’s circumstances. It doesn’t just have to be internal attitude. There are external circumstances that poke at us, that really get at us. So how do we begin once that is true, once there’s a circumstance. There may be relatives that don’t appreciate our boundaries, and at times, they’re going to cross our boundaries and we have to deal with that.
Leigh: We have to trust that our way is the right way, and not in a stubborn, prideful manner. It’s what you believe with all your heart, soul, and mind is what you’re supposed to do, and it’s so that it doesn’t stir up wrath.
Again, we have to go back to just maturity. We have to go back to just believing that with time and age comes his wisdom and his knowledge and understanding. But yeah, tomorrow something’s just gonna really get my goozle, and it’s not gonna be Christlike. But I think the more we practice, the more we exercise, that muscle will shape itself and we will be better for it, and hopefully, those that are watching will pay attention. Hopefully. But a lot of people are still… We are all just one step at a time, if we could just do one step at a time. He gives us one breath at a time, so let’s just take one step at a time too.
“He gives us one breath at a time, so let’s just take one step at a time too.”
Patsy: Great counsel. Thank you so much.
When I think of Christmas, I think of companions who add joy to my life, and that certainly is you, my dear, as well as you, Andrew. And the two of you together did something very special a number of years ago at my dining room table when you sang one of the most popular Christmas songs of all time together. And I would just love it if you would do… I just can’t believe you’re both here, and I wouldn’t ask, but I have to do this. I know I shouldn’t put you on the spot, but I’m gonna. Would you sing “Silent Night”?
Leigh: Yes
Andrew: Yes
Leigh Cappillino and Andrew Greer singing “Silent Night”
Silent night, holy night
All is calm, and all is bright
Round yon Virgin, Mother and Child
Holy infant so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace
Silent night, holy night
Son of God love's pure light
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With dawn of redeeming grace
Jesus Lord at Thy birth
Jesus Lord at Thy birth
Patsy: It is our prayer that this Christmas you would know that the bridge from where you’re at to where you want to be is Jesus. He’s waiting for you. He wants to do a personal and deep and lovely thing within you. May a true melody of who he is be forever in your life.
Andrew: So you’ve been listening to Bridges with…
Patsy: Patsy Clairmont, a true Boomer.
Andrew: Andrew Greer, a barely Millennial, with our good friend, I’m sure a Gen X-er, Ms. Leigh Cappillino from Point of Grace.
Leigh: Thank you
Patsy: And one of my favorite singers in the whole world.
Andrew: And one of my favorite casserole makers. If you could think of anyone you’re grateful of right now, who would it be, Leigh?
Leigh: Oh, everybody.
Andrew: Oh, we were hoping you’d say us.
Leigh: Well, you are everybody. You’re in there.
Andrew: Merry Christmas, everyone.
Patsy: Merry Christmas
Patsy: Bridges is produced by my co-host, Andrew Greer.
Andrew: And co-produced by my co-host, Patsy Clairmont. Our podcast is recorded by Jesse Phillips.
Patsy: And sometimes my son, Jason Clairmont.
Andrew: At the Arcade in Franklin, Tennessee. Jesse Phillips is also our editor and mixes our show. And our theme music is written by Kyle Buchanan and yours truly, and all of the instruments of the music were played by Kyle Buchanan at Aries Lounge in Spring Hill, Tennessee. Our transcripts are provided by Rachel Worsham. Thanks, Rachel, for all your work.
Patsy: If you like what you’ve been listening to, you can help us out by leaving a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to our show.
Andrew: For more information about Patsy, myself, or to read transcripts and to listen to more episodes, go to bridgesshow.com.
Patsy: Catch you next time.