Episode 41: Tim Timmons: The Every Day Church
Transcript
Patsy: Hi, I’m Patsy Clairmont, and I’m a Boomer.
Andrew: And I’m Andrew Greer, and I’m a Millennial.
Patsy: And you are listening to Bridges.
Andrew: Spiritual Connections Through Generational Conversations
Patsy: Season Two is brought to you by Food for the Hungry.
Andrew: Meeting the physical and spiritual needs of people all around the world for over 50 years.
Patsy: So who are we having today? Is it a great surprise? You bet it is. It seems so often on Bridges we have musical guests, and this is true today. Someone who sings and plays the guitar and knows how to have relationship with people and is a fan of the church. So tell me his name.
Andrew: Tim Timmons. He is a wonderful fellow of song, of music, but of thought as well. He has some really distinctive thoughts about how we interact as the church in our daily lives. We’re talking today about we focus on this time of fellowship, this time of corporate worship where we go to church on a Saturday or a Sunday or whenever we go that one time during the week, but what about the rest of the week? Aren’t we still the church? And Tim’s got some incredible thoughts about that, and he’s got some music to aid us in our thought-provoking process.
Patsy: And he’s really a nice guy.
Patsy: We always have a bridge that takes us from one place to another. There’s two things I love — it’s bridges and maps because I like getting around and getting there quickly. But this bridge is one that would take us from Earth to heaven because we’re going to look at the constellation. And one of the things that’s up there is the Milky Way, and did you know, Andrew, that there is a hundred billion stars just in our Milky Way?
Andrew: I did not.
Patsy: And while it might look like they’re just scattered up there, they’ve been placed, and each one is different and they can sing. And that takes us over the bridge into our guest.
Andrew: That’s absolutely right. He is not only a singer, he’s a songwriter, and he certainly is a star, and we mean that in all the whole ways of that. Tim Timmons, we’re grateful to have you here on Bridges.
Tim: Of course. You didn’t mention dancing.
Patsy: Boogie on.
Andrew: But Dancing with the Stars indeed. We’re thinking of…
Tim: You
Andrew: Thank you very much. People often call me that. It’s probably because of my size, same with Patsy.
Patsy: Watch it. Speak for yourself.
Andrew: Yeah, we’re shorter. We take pictures afterwards with our guests, but they actually say we’re so short. It doesn’t matter, Tim. You’re taller than us, but you’re also a man of many talents, many gifts, many skill sets. Sometimes when you say that about someone it’s because they haven’t quite found really their niche, right. And I know sometimes it may have felt that way, but I think your niche goes far beyond just one skill set really into this theme of messaging that I believe happens whether you are writing on a blog or whether you’re on a vlog or whether you’re talking about a nonprofit that you’ve started or it’s in your songwriting. And that is the message of we as Christians, as disciples, are not just living to get to Sunday or to get to our church service, but that indeed we were created to be the church throughout our entire lives. Tell me about that, and tell me about how that kind of movement in your own life has taken shape.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s so easy just to roll off the tongue, what you just said right there. I would’ve agreed with that my entire life. What’s the church? It’s who we are. And yet every time — I mean, just think about it, whoever’s listening right now — every time you say the word church, what is the context of church? Generally, for me my whole life, it’s been a place I go or a thing I do. And we still say, “We are the church,” but I kind of call Bible study on that one, if you will. I don’t know how free we are on this one.
Andrew: Absolutely free.
Tim: Just because in my heart… My son asked me a few years ago, we were driving actually in Franklin. Down Franklin Road here in Nashville, there are 8,000 million church buildings.
Patsy: There are.
Tim: And he’s like, “Dad, what’s that building?” I said, “Buddy, it’s a church.” And it was a proud dad moment. He said, “Well, dad, that’s not a church. Church is me, right, dad?” I’m like, I’ve taught him well, but he just totally worked me right in my own car.
I think it hit me probably about 12 years ago, and I had just been working for Jesus my whole life. I was a pastor, a worship leader out in California at a large community out there. It was great. I loved that community so much. But I just saw that I had worked for God my whole life, and it left me exhausted. My soul was exhausted. And if I was a varsity American Christian, like with some kind of letterman jacket, whatever my logo would be.
Andrew: C
Tim: C, thank you. And I was a captain of it because I was awesome. What a great American Christian I’ve been. And yet my soul was exhausted. And as I looked around, I’m like, I don’t know too many pastors that their hearts and souls aren’t actually exhausted. And if the pastors are, I mean, who are the people, we’re leading people. And there’s no shame on that, it’s no indictment; it just is what it is. And as I travel the country, I see the same thing. And again, no shame attached to that; it’s just what it is.
And I just started thinking, Okay, what have I missed here, because I’ve selling this Jesus song and all the things that I do, but what if he’s actually real and the things that he invites us into are actually legit? I mean, that’s crazy. That’s a revolution. And I just have not been a part of a revolution; I’ve just been a part of a religion for my whole life. And I just noticed that, and I’m like, Okay, something’s gotta change.
So I quit working for Jesus about 10 or 12 years ago. Literally, it was like a decision of, Jesus, I’m done working for you. I will never work for you again. It almost sounds cliche, but I just want to walk with you. I’m going to join you in what you’re doing, instead of me saying, “God, would you bless this today?”
So it has changed my whole outlook, and I think I have more fruit of his Spirit than fruit of my labor, which is most of my life. So yeah, it’s been quite a journey.
Andrew: Well, how do you define that? When you say, Okay, this is the time where I decided I’m going to quit working for Jesus, but I’m gonna be living with Jesus, but then yet, your work is still attached to Christendom or to kind of that subcategory of whether it’s Christian music or whether it’s inspirational teaching or whatever you want to call it. So then how do you discern, Okay, am I back to working for Jesus instead of living with Jesus, and these are the fruits of my labors by what I contribute to the world. You know what I mean? That can get a little dicey, and I think that’s where it gets exhausting.
Tim: Yeah, I think so. Again, I was doing so much for him and putting on great services and writing great songs for him. I prayed for God, I evangelized for him, I would go on mission trips for him, and at some point, that gets exhausting because that’s not actually being attached to the vine; that’s saying, “Hey Jesus, why don’t you come along and bless this thing. Let’s do this thing real well.”
And I think what’s been so freeing is that it’s not up to me anymore. When I gather as the church now, and if I’m gonna lead the church in songs, I don’t even want to do it for the church. I want to do it with the church now, which is just a mind shift.
Patsy: It is a mind shift.
Tim: It is. When I’m talking to somebody on the plane when I’m headed somewhere, my role isn’t to do anything but just to love that person well, and if Jesus wants to open a cool door, then I get to walk through that. But my whole life, I’m so good at opening doors that it’s just exhausting.
And then if you don’t do something well, then you feel like, Ugh, I really blew that.
Patsy: I let him down.
Tim: Like I have to defend God or he needs me to do certain things. He invites us into things.
So it’s literally been a freeing…just a huge freedom for me.
Patsy: Tell us about your family.
Tim: Thank you. As she says with a really cute smile. I love it.
I am married for almost 24 years, I think.
Patsy: Congratulations.
Tim: Thank you. We have four kids, feels like 20. Malia is 14, Noah is 12, and then we had a surprise pregnancy that turned out to be twins, and we call them the Twimmons, and that’s Aaron and Anna, and they’re almost 10.
Parenting is not easy — I’ll put that out there.
Patsy: No. Neither is marriage. Neither one of them are easy.
Tim: Marriage is super easy. If anybody wants any advice, I’ve got plenty.
Patsy: Yeah, I would say wait a while.
Tim: Yes, yes.
Andrew: She’s almost 60 years in.
Tim: I love that. I love that.
So yeah, they’re wonderful humans.
Andrew: How do you translate that own discovery in your life about what church is to you? Obviously, I think you were saying it was your son who said, “Wait, I’m the church,” so that has trickled down in your family to become a part of the own fabric of their spirituality as, Wait, I’m the church. The Holy Spirit is empowering me. But how did that look for you and your wife, because it sounds like you were having children right at the time that you’re also discovering this for yourself. Did that shape the way that you parented?
Tim: So much. That is a great question. I literally was just telling somebody who was having a baby recently — I wasn’t in the room when she was having the baby.
Andrew: It sounded like a habit.
Tim: It’s a weird thing I do. I go into hospitals. This got weird.
No, just how once I started having kids, you start thinking how do you describe certain things to kids because I can just keep doing my religious thing my whole life, but if you’re explaining to these humans that you get to shape, I don’t want my son or my daughters or any of my kids to ever think that they can go to church for 80 minutes a week and then there are 10,000 other minutes for the rest of the week that they’re not the church. Oh, so the Spirit is just hanging out here.
And we know that cognitively. Like we would all go, “Yes, that is so true.” But how do we actually live that is really different. So for my son, and I know it’s just semantics, and I used to make fun of people that were so high and mighty on their semantics, just the words, but church, if we really get there, Jesus said it twice and it’s not in the reference that we would ever use it in. It’s just bizarre.
I go, Jesus, what do you really care about? And how do then we invite our kids into that? And they get to have their own journey and push up against it in whatever way that they need to, and I’m welcoming that with fear and trembling. But yeah, I think that has changed having kids, thinking how do I then describe this to them so it’s not the religious, Christian circus that I know that actually doesn’t even work, to be honest.
Patsy: Talk to us about those 10,000 minutes.
Tim: Yeah, as she says with a really cute smile. I love it.
Andrew: I haven’t gotten that comment yet. I’m gonna start leaning in to ask you questions.
Tim: Yeah, as Andrew says with a ugly, ugly scowl.
So there are 10,080 minutes in a week. Patsy, just go with it.
Patsy: I will.
Tim: Or you can google it if you want. Yeah, check it out.
So 10,080 minutes in a week. As I left this community that I was a part of in California, I’d pushed everybody into… You know, 10,080 minutes — 80 of those minutes are in a church gathering somewhere, whether it’s in a coffee shop or in a home or in a big building that we call a church, which is awesome. I love the gathering of the church. How powerful the gathering of the church. Yet, every time that I was a part of it, it was like let’s always keep pointing people back to coming to the 80-minute gathering because this is where they’ll meet Jesus, this is where they’ll hear about Jesus, this is where we worship Jesus, this is where we learn to surrender. Which are all great things, but there are 10,000 other minutes during the week that I just was like, Oh, I’m exhausted in the 10,000 minutes. I’m on fire for the 80 minutes. I can surrender all day long, hands up. For me, the gathering is the place where we get to practice bravery.
For me, it just hit me that when somebody cuts me off as I’m driving out of the 80-minute gathering and I want to tell them with my heart that they’re No. 1. I don’t do that actually. I drive by that person, and I will look in and I’ll give them a really nice Christian smile, but in my heart, I literally have contempt for that person. So if the definition of contempt is thinking I’m better than somebody, I think I’m better than that person.
And so what’s that look like for me to actually walk with Jesus, join him in that moment, is not to damn that person, but I think his invitation would be, Hey Tim, what if you just try praying for that person? How would that change things? So my friends and I, we just started trying to say, Okay, let’s put the way and principles of Jesus into practice during our week. Let’s just see how it goes, like almost as an experiment. So that’s what we started doing maybe eight years ago, and my life has been changed. And we’re not earning anything from God for doing these experiments, but I’m starting to change.
So my son, good example, he was being called names at school a few years back, and people were saying he’s so fat, which my son is not. He is like this stud. But just kids are just lame. And he came to me and told me that, and I was not happy about that. I wanted to like go take that kid out, literally, and his parents and his dog. And so I was sad about that, and I told him, I said, “Buddy, what’s a practice that we’re practicing this week with 10,000 minutes?” He said, “Praying for our enemies.” I’m like, “Yeah. Man, I might need this more than you need it this week.” I said, “What if we just started praying for this kid instead of anything else? Let’s just start praying for him. And even if the kid doesn’t change, I guarantee, buddy, I would bet that our hearts are going to change this week.” So we prayed that, and we’re praying it together, and at the end of that, I remember he came up to me and said, “Dad, I did it.” I’m like, “You hit him?” He’s like, “No. He called me the names, and I said, ‘That’s not who I am. Don’t call me that again, and I want my water back, please.’” And it was just my son got to actually practice the way of Jesus and align his heart and realign his heart, as I got to align my heart and realign my heart with the way of Jesus, and I would say I changed that week, versus just having some Bible Sunday school class where we talk about this and we make a papier-mâchéDavid and Goliath thing. Putting it into practice is a game-changer.
Andrew: It’s literally Jesus’ words — you know, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, which they don’t always mean intentionally. Sometimes cutting you off in traffic is not even an intentional trespass or how it makes me feel, but the change of that. I even think when you were talking about how you had learned to pray for God or go on mission trips for God. I was thinking the other day how many times we pray, especially in the context of when we gather together as the church, we pray our sermons instead of literally praying, you know, our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Your Kingdom come. Thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven.
That’s a desire for him to live through me, not me to say, Here’s what I want to see happen, and we’re proclaiming that, which there is a place and time to put your petitions before God. But I would say in the corporate culture of church, of gathering together, it really, the design of prayer is to submit ourselves to the will of God, not knowing most of the time what the will of God is gonna look like in the next day or week, etcetera. So I think that’s interesting.
But what I have to ask you about before we move on is — and what I mean is move on to another guest, but anyway.
Tim: The next guy’s right outside. He keeps knocking.
Andrew: We’re kind of done on time, yeah.
Okay, leading worship, being a part of a church in Orange County, and you were talking about the definition of contempt is that you see yourself as better than someone else. Well, my brother used to be a pastor in Orange County too, and it was a very unique position from what I heard from him because all three of us sitting around this table right now compared to the income that each individual makes in the world, we’re wealthy, even if we’re middle class Americans or whatever. But when I think about the temperature and the climate of something like Orange County, what was it like ministering and being a part of a church community, because I’ve never lived there, I’ve never been a part of a church community there, in Southern California where there is so much…
Patsy: Privilege
Andrew: There ya go.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, I grew up in it. I’m from Newport Beach, Corona del Mar, which is this really poor area in Orange County.
Patsy: Not.
Tim: Yeah, that is not true. I just lied to everybody.
Andrew: That’s very Southern California. I’m just kidding. I’m totally kidding. If you listen, please keep listening.
Tim: It just was what I knew, and I think as I started traveling the country with music and different things, I think my eyes just started opening up in different ways. Even moving here to Franklin, Tennessee, has been just fascinating.
Patsy: I was gonna ask you about that, what you think about this area.
Tim: Oh, we love it. You can practice following Jesus in Orange County or in Franklin, which is totally true. But there’s a different pace.
Oh gosh, it’s a fascinating question that I don’t know if I have a good answer to on how you minister to that crew. I think we all just have our different things and different things that we give our attention to. And out here, it might be more of a conservative way that people are giving more of their attention to being conservative out here than to the heart and way of Jesus. So out there, they might be giving their attention more to money and finances and whatever. I just think in all places, it’s coming down to what are we giving our attention to, and in each of those places, they might be different, but they’re still the same issue at the bottom of it.
Andrew: Human nature follows all of us everywhere, and so that’s just a fact. And so yeah, we each make gods of something as a way of…
“Human nature follows all of us everywhere.”
Tim: I do all day, all stinking day. My attention, whether it’s on looks or music, how my single’s doing. You guys have your own things. We literally get led astray from our pure and simple devotion to Jesus by the cunning of some other god.
Patsy: I think pure and simple really captures it because when we measure that against how complicated we can make our existence, that’s when we can, kind of like the flags come up, the lights go on, we realize, Whoa, I need to step back over to the pure and simple. I like that.
Andrew: There’s even more lights to turn on in our conversation with Tim Timmons when we come back. We’re gonna talk all about his journey with a cancer diagnosis. So we are thankful you are here, Tim.
I am Andrew Greer, the brilliant Millennial, and I’m here with my evermore brilliant, effervescent co-host.
Tim: Beautiful smile.
Andrew: Beautiful smile. Cutesy, tootsy Patsy Clairmont, the Boomer. We’ll be back.
Food for the Hungry Sponsorship Message
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The Abide Bible Sponsorship Message
Patsy: “Shout out praises to the Lord, all the earth. Worship the Lord with joy. Enter his presence with joyful singing. Acknowledge that the Lord is God. He made us and we belong to him; we are his people and the sheep of his pasture.”
That’s Psalm 100, verses 1 and 2, from my own Abide Bible.
When we abide him and his words abide in us, everything changes — our perspective, our attitude. So it anchors my soul when I go to the Word of God. It teaches me better behavior than I’d have otherwise because I can really suffer from a case of the attitude. So this helps to keep me in a better place with a sweeter attitude in a difficult world.
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Patsy: Okay, we’re back with our wonderful, delightful, hilarious, insightful guest.
Tim: Keep going. Keep going.
Patsy: Tim Timmons. And what I was thinking about was another bridge, and this is the CaringBridge, and that is a resource given to families and people who have just received a diagnosis of cancer to help them with their coping mechanisms to help them find greater hope and resources. And you wanted to go from there to…
Andrew: I sure did, into Tim.
Tim: That was a cutesy, tootsy way of getting in there, that’s all I know.
Andrew: So Tim, you have cancer.
Tim: That is a diagnosis in my body, yes.
Andrew: Yes, interesting. That’s an interesting way to say it.
Tim: This is one of those semantics that I don’t care that much about, but I will get, and you will get, so many emails about it because there are people that will go, “Do not claim that that’s in your body.”
Andrew: Okay, okay.
Tim: There are tumors in my body at the moment. Cancer does not define me, nor is that my story. So people have often said, “So tell me your story.” And I go, “Well, I think you mean cancer, but that’s the stupidest story I know.” Like that’s actually not my story at all.
For me, my story is actually walking with Jesus in the midst of it and going, Are you real? My dad has called himself a agnostic follower of Jesus for years, and I probably put me in that same pile in that I’m not a hundred percent sure in anything. If anybody is, I’m so happy for you. That’s so great. But that’s also called faith. So as I walk in this, it’s like, okay, I was given five years to live 21 years ago, and in that season, it’s like, I’m gonna bet my one and only life on you, Jesus, and we are asking and agreeing with each other in your name, in your power, and with your authority for healing for my body. And there’s still cancer in my body, but I keep waking up every single day, which is the great gift.
So to me, that’s one of the greatest gifts of this sorrow has been just today. I mean, I got to wake up today, do a few podcasts, hang out with you amazing people. This is our gift. And tomorrow, if we get to wake up again, awesome.
Patsy: Yes, as long as we’re clinging yesterday or clamoring for tomorrow, we’re missing the beautiful gift of claiming this day as our very own in the fullness thereof.
Andrew: I had a family member who they called it with her living with cancer, and that was that she was never in full remission. There was always cancer in her body, though she had a great many years of quality life with her family and her children of really, seemingly as if nothing was wrong with her body, not just an outward observation but also the way she was able to live and conduct her life. But it was interesting that the little I know about her own kind of internal workings with that reality in her life was that it really was a daily shift in her perspective, which few of us live with such a stark reality that it gives us the ability to face each day with the kind of perspective you’re saying of, like, and today, I’m grateful for today.
I’ve heard it said that God is present, and to be with God is to be at home and to be at peace, and so to be with him is to be here right now, not, like you’re saying, not in the past, not in the future. How did that shift your perspective, or has that colored your life? You were already married when you got this first diagnosis but not yet having children, is that correct?
Tim: Yeah, yeah. We were just a few years married, and all of a sudden, this just happens. I mean, that was pretty sobering.
Patsy: Absolutely. It would have to be.
Tim: Really sobering. So in that season, I think there are a few questions that I had and a few things that I held on to, and my questions were, Okay God, are you real, and do you care about me, and are you still good? And I had to kind of start wrestling with those questions.
Patsy: Great questions.
Tim: I still wrestle with those, and I think they’re really healthy things to wrestle with. I think that’s also a blessing and a gift to be able to ask hard questions and to push up against the Creator of all things as if he’s not offended by those things.
Patsy: Yes, and to live with the mystery makes us expand our perspective to include that which we do not fully understand in hopes that we’ll get it, but it doesn’t mean that he will allow us into all the secret places while we’re here on earth. And what are we gonna with that in regard to our faith?
Tim: Yeah. My wife had a major wrestling match with God for years. After the first year, I wasn’t healed yet, we had been praying for it, agreeing, believing for it, all the things you’re supposed to do as people would tell you to do. And I was still going into surgeries and having all these things, and she’s like, Okay. God, you’ve really blown this whole thing up, so I don’t know how I can trust you. It’s been a fascinating journey to watch her through that and myself through that with my questions. And she’s in a beautiful place with that now. She should be your next person because she’s cooler than I am.
In that season, I had a decision to make: Is he good? Is he not? Is he for me or against me? And is he at work in all things or not? You know, all these questions. And it was like, Okay. Today, I’m gonna walk with you today. Tomorrow, I have no clue. But I’m gonna choose this today.
So as somebody said earlier, you almost have to make that decision everyday, and I think it’s the gift of sorrow and calamity, is if we don’t have sorrow and calamity, there’s no need to make a daily decision to say, Okay, this is what I want for today, but it’s not up to me anymore. I get to walk with you in the midst of this. And that's only broken. Our kingdoms and queendoms are only broken by sorrow and calamity, or else it’s seek first the kingdom of Tim all day long. So I think it was the great refiner that continues to be the great refiner in my life.
“Our kingdoms and queendoms are only broken by sorrow and calamity.”
Andrew: It’s also the greatest common denominator of humanity, from my perspective, is pain and grief and sorrow. All that kind of goes together. But the details of that for each of us is different. But the disease of life is terminal. We are living with a terminal disease. The reality of death is stark, it’s true, it’s fact, and it’s something we don’t escape. So we all have to face that reality if we’re to live in hope and to live with peace. In fact, I would — and I’m sure everyone cares about my philosophical gleanings…
Patsy: Have you taken a vote on that?
Andrew: No, I shut down that Survey Monkey.
Culturally, I think, why we’re so rife with tension, one reason might be, is that we haven’t faced the reality of what life looks like, and that is that we will face a certain death from this body, and so we haven’t really probed the grief and the sorrow and the not-okay-ness with that to then discover, okay, where is our hope? Where is our longer, kind of bigger picture thing? I think we’re living so minutia almost, and it’s not that this present moment, again, is so important, but it should be illuminating of the great eternal design.
Tim: That starts today.
Andrew: Yes, right.
Tim: That’s a bonkers thought because I think it’s always been, man, well, when I get to heaven, this’ll all… It’s like, well, or Jesus never talked about that. And even the idea of hope, I mean, you mentioned hope, and that’s been really an interesting study, even biblical study, that it is definitely mentioned as in we hope for things that he will do, but I would say the majority of times hope is used, it’s in him alone, not in the things he will do for me.
So in this journey with cancer or journey with my kids, I’m wanting them to not grow up and be total whatevers, and so I get so stressed out when they’re being lame. It’s really because I’m fearful that they’re gonna turn out to be terrible humans, whatever it is. I’m like, Okay God, I hope that you will do this and change their heart now. Change whatever. I think there’s an expectation that we’re putting on God that’s really dangerous, that whatever he can do for me becomes my hope, not him alone, which is just what you were saying. It’s changed even my thought on prayer life and my expectations of what he’s doing versus what’s he actually up to.
Andrew: Well, even if my hope in my relationship with God is a destination, this heaven idea — and this is still evolving in my own walk, journey with God — is that at the end of the day I don’t know what heaven looks like, I don’t know what the life after this looks like, I don’t what context I continue to exist in. All I know is I want to be with him.
Tim: Right, yes.
Andrew: I want to be in communion with God. That’s what I know. So it goes back to you saying even… You’re really talking about working out our salvation on a daily basis because I know that old evangelical question, at least in the tradition I grew up in, what you would do when you went and evangelized to people on the street was…
Patsy: Get on their nerves.
Andrew: Yes. Well, yeah. They look at you like, You make no sense, and please give me something to eat. But you know, you would say, “If you were to die tonight, are you going to heaven or hell?” And the only answer I know to that question for myself now, which is even evolving, is “heaven, I hope.” Like my hope is not in myself; it’s in God, and whatever he delivers me into will be the best thing, no matter what that is. But that’s truly a shift in perspective from our cultural Christianity, which of course you’ve been all wrapped up in. So how do you stay in cultural Christianity because your life’s work still is a part of encouraging the church and Christians. How do you do that with all your questions?
Tim: I just think there are more people out there with questions than we give merit to. I’m not trying to blow anything up. People have said that “You’re more of a missionary to Christians than anything else, Tim.” That feels like I’m better than somebody, and that’s not true either because I’m just in the middle of this. And I guess with my songs or with my podcast and with my blogs and all of the things that I do, I’m just wanting to do it with people and journey in this with people who actually want to ask good questions. And what would it look like for us to actually join Jesus in our day is a dangerous and powerful and game-changing question.
So when I do my records and write all my songs, and if they go on the radio, that’s awesome, but that’s more for influence for me than being an awesome Christian artist. But to be able to speak into the world, especially Jesus people, and go, “Hey, what would it look like if we joined him today versus did something for him or invited him into our little microcosmic thing?” That gets me really excited, and that’s actually what gets me up in the morning is doing that myself and then getting to invite other people into it with me.
“What would it look like for us to actually join Jesus in our day?”
Andrew: Well, we are gonna be invited into that with you, Tim, here in a minute with some music because you are a musician after all. We’d also like to talk about your new podcast, so that’s competing with ours, so we’ll touch on it, maybe edit it out.
Tim: I would, I would. I totally would.
Patsy: I’m gonna be the first one to tune in here because I want to hear more. I love what you’re saying, and I love the way you express what’s going on and the way that you don’t try to explain that which you haven’t yet decided upon because it gives us all permission to be where we’re at and move forward.
Tim: I love that.
Patsy: So thank you. Thank you for that. And I can’t wait to hear the music.
Don’t you leave us, not one of you, because you’re gonna want to hear this.
Patsy: Andrew, I understand, word is out, that you do another podcast with a friend of ours. Tell us about that.
Andrew: Mr. Mark Lowry, who was a guest on this podcast. He’s my co-host for Dinner Conversations with Mark Lowry and Andrew Greer. We have a ton of fun talking about all kinds of topics around the table, and you can find them at dinner-conversations.com.
Do you know something that we both love a lot of, Patsy?
Patsy: What’s that?
Andrew: That’s books.
Patsy: Food
Andrew: That too. But I hear you have a book club.
Patsy: I do have a book club. It’s called Porch Pals Book Club, and you can find out more about the book club by going to patsyclairmont.com.
Food for the Hungry Sponsorship Message
Patsy: Food for the Hungry is giving us a wonderful opportunity. I’m so glad that they have put this program into effect because of the literacy issue around the world, and this is going to help tackle that, plus bring the light of Christ into the lives of children that will be spread throughout the villages and the homes and the hearts of people. I love it. I love it. Tell us more.
Andrew: We have been given the opportunity, through our friends at Food for the Hungry, to purchase Bibles for people in communities around the world. The beauty of these Bibles is that they come ready to read. No matter where these folks are — that may be a community in Bolivia or Cambodia or Haiti or Kenya — all across the world, these Bibles are translated in their native tongue, which we think of being able to procure a Bible anytime we want, either through our technological devices or going to a bookstore, picking one up, or Amazon. It’s not as easily or readily available to other communities that are more rural and more impoverished around the world.
And so, of course, Food for the Hungry has been committed for decades to not only meeting the physical needs of people around the world, and of course, we helped do that through chickens last season. This season we’re getting to complete their mission, and that is meet the spiritual needs through the offering of a Bible.
So go to fh.org/bridges, and for $12, you can purchase a Bible for someone who is waiting to receive it across the world. And don’t forget — your gift is tax deductible.
Tim Timmons singing “This is the Day”
Each day I rise
I'll fix my eyes
On Your promises, over and over
That I am loved
No matter what
And You are enough, over and over
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice and be glad in it
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice and be glad in it
I will rejoice and be glad in it
My joy, my rest
Does not depend, no
On my circumstance or how I'm feeling
Seasons, they change
Wе bend, we break
Molded and remade over and over
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice and be glad in it
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice and be glad in it
I will rejoice and be glad in it
So I'll sing for joy, joy, joy
In the valley where it grows
I'll sing for joy, joy, joy
In the goodness of my Lord
I'll sing for joy, joy, joy
And I'll never walk alone
You are my rest, my confidence
So if you’re in the middle of it today
I'll sing for joy, joy, joy
In the valley where it grows
We sing for joy, joy, joy
In the goodness of my Lord
I'll sing for joy, joy, joy
Though I'll never walk alone
You are my rest, my confidence
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice, I will rejoice
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice and be glad in it
I will rejoice, I will rejoice
This is the day that You have made
I will rejoice and be glad in it, yeah
Patsy: This is the day, and we are with Tim Timmons, who has so many amazing qualities. We’re about to find out about his latest project.
Andrew: That’s right. It’s called HERE, and Tim, you continue…
Patsy: Spell that here.
Andrew: H-e-r-e.
Patsy: Gosh, I love that. You’re a word person. That’s so great. I’ve never had that question. I love that.
Andrew: That’s good because then when they look it up and you’re not there if you’re listening, but if you’re present here, then you will be with Tim Timmons.
So tell us about the music on this. Of course, it’s with Integrity, which has a long history with providing songs for the church to be sung by the church, and that has been part of your history, though you have also written songs in your own catalog and for other folks like MercyMe, etcetera, that are for people to really digest. These are for people to join in with, right?
Tim: Yeah. I really call these songs more than songs; I call them prayers. And these are specific prayers that I get to pray. I mean, the other songs I’ve written for other people and myself, those are also prayers, but these are prayers that are meant for the church to actually agree on together when we sing them, like a prayer, and then all week long that they would become people’s prayers during the week. So that’s really my hope in all these things, not just to put out Christian music because I don’t think we need anymore of that. But stuff that matters and actually helps people join Jesus, that’s what gets me most excited.
Andrew: Tell me this. A lot of people will talk about music if it’s just something aesthetic. Of course, Patsy and I both believe that beauty is important, that any kind of art, that that has a way of translating part of potentially God’s heart into our own daily lives. What do you feel about music in its relationship between us and God? Like how does that interact for you with God?
Tim: I don’t know. I mean, I should have a really cool answer to that.
Andrew: I was hoping.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, all I know is that in the Bible it’s used so many times, and I know that when I’m watching a movie and the music is powerful, it just moves my heart, and my soul was actually made to move through music. So there’s something really powerful through it, and I don’t understand the whole relationship with it and God, but I do know that when David talks about how to sing… The real word is like “I must sing.” It was an imperative. And there’s something about us singing or proclaiming something together or by myself that is bigger than just me saying something with my words. So I don’t understand the whole relationship to it; I just know that it’s really powerful, so that’s why I like to write those prayers.
Patsy: I think there’s a reason that there’s a rhythm that is established in all of creation, that there’s the rhythm of the seasons, there’s the changing of the wave patterns. There’s a song in everything. We might not hear it that way initially, but there’s a reason when people go to the waterside, the Scripture says that the voice of the Lord is upon the waters, so all the rhythms in the ocean are singing about who he is. I love that, that we get to join in, and I love that you’ve written your songs as prayers for all of us to join in so there can be that agreement and that harmony being built.
“There’s a song in everything.”
Tim: I really see them, lately, just as agreements. When we’re in this corporate sense, the actual gathering, I mean, how powerful. When two or more are gathered and we’re agreeing in the name of Jesus on things, he promises he will act upon those things. I mean, what if it’s true? What if that’s not just some silly Scripture but like actually true?
Or even I was just thinking about Second Chronicles, when Jehoshaphat and all that stuff’s happening, they send out the singers and the instrumental people ahead of the army. There’s something fascinating that their song was… It says they sang “you are good, and your love endures forever,” and it says as they sang in unison as with one voice, that’s pretty cool. That’s pretty powerful.
Patsy: That’s that agreement message again.
Andrew: Another safe place for us to agree, of course, is the medium of conversation which we’ve been having today with you, Tim, but you’re having those with a lot of other people as well. You haven’t invited us on yet, but I think there’s other guests on it, and that’s on a new podcast of yours. Tell us about that podcast.
Tim: Yeah. Well, I started this idea 10000minutes.com a few years back, just because I was thinking, How do I join Jesus during my week and see where he’s at work and join him? And so the idea of this, it’s called the 10,000 Minute Experiment, so we have a different practice that we’re doing every week, and whatever that practice is, we’ll practice it, we’ll talk about it, then we’ll practice it and see how’d it go, about praying for my enemies or one of the practices is breathing in Jesus, breathing out “you have my attention.” And just practicing that all day long for a week and see what does that do. Does it do anything to our hearts? If not, great. What’d we learn? What’d we see? And so we have an awful lot of fun on that podcast and some really fun guests. So anyway, it’s been a blast.
Andrew: Well, Tim, it’s been delightful to have you on today.
Tim: You guys are awesome. I see why people listen to this.
Andrew: Well, thank you. We see why people listen to you as well and, of course, the latest record HERE, which is out now on Integrity Music. You can find that, stream that everywhere, and the podcast the 10,000 Minute Experiment with Tim Timmons. We look forward to all these things and to continuing to just, I don’t know, to journey with Jesus with each other, and that’s what, Tim, you’ve encouraged us in today.
Patsy: Daily blessings in this now, Tim Timmons, and to your lovely wife, who puts up with a great deal; to your beautiful children as they grow and learn more about what you are giving them because that’s a great gift. Thank you for being a good daddy, and bless you.
Patsy: Bridges is produced by my co-host, Andrew Greer.
Andrew: And co-produced by my co-host, Patsy Clairmont. Our podcast is recorded by Jesse Phillips.
Patsy: And sometimes my son, Jason Clairmont.
Andrew: At the Arcade in Franklin, Tennessee. Jesse Phillips is also our editor and mixes our show. And our theme music is written by Kyle Buchanan and yours truly, and all of the instruments of the music were played by Kyle Buchanan at Aries Lounge in Spring Hill, Tennessee. Our transcripts are provided by Rachel Worsham. Thanks, Rachel, for all your work.
Patsy: If you like what you’ve been listening to, you can help us out by leaving a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to our show.
Andrew: For more information about Patsy, myself, or to read transcripts and to listen to more episodes, go to bridgesshow.com.
Patsy: Catch you next time.